Windows 7

[Dave]

[quote author=Surf314 link=topic=2087.msg61337#msg61337 date=1231957270]
I was reading an article on how they should have 2 versions of windows 7.  A core version as a free Vista upgrade and an ultimate with all the features.  I agree, I'm one of many that feels ripped off by Vista.  I even did the digital upgrade to ultimate for some features that I needed that turned out to be completely shit in implementation.

They'd never do it because they seem to have this if you drive fast enough you won't run out of gas philosophy, but it really wouldn't be a bad business move at all.  It'd create a lot of goodwill, many people thinking of switching after Vista will stay with windows, a lot of people will end up paying to upgrade, and all new computer purchases will be of W7 machines.

Now what they are probably going to do is charge $200-$400 for it.  So people are either going to say fuck that and switch to linux or OSX, or they are going to buy it and no matter how good it is still feel cheated for buying Vista and W7 when Vista seems like a beta of W7.

To be honest... Vista was. Many of the reasons why W7's beta felt so good to previewers is because essentially it's vista... App compatibility is the same, hw reqs are the same, driver model, etc etc etc The big difference between W7's launch and Vistas? Stuff has already gone Vista compatible so it's already W7 compatible...

As a colleague said today, something I really agree with, it would have been nice if W7 flopped like Vista did so that enough people would jump ship and make the OS market an open market again and give people who have alternative operating system stuff like games again... It would be great if all OSes had games so that you're not forced to buy something you don't really want to buy just because you want to game...
[/quote]


the problem with open source OS's are that the companies that make the games dont have a set person/branch to talk with about operating syetsem compatability, they COULD look into it themselves, but that costs time and money, whereas with apple and windows, they both have dedicated people for that shit that can just be contacted, they get payed to do their job and can fully commit their time to it.

im guessing.

[ScottyGrayskull]

I was reading an article on how they should have 2 versions of windows 7.  A core version as a free Vista upgrade and an ultimate with all the features.  I agree, I'm one of many that feels ripped off by Vista.  I even did the digital upgrade to ultimate for some features that I needed that turned out to be completely shit in implementation.

At the risk of sounding like a dick, that is the risk people run when they do early adoption. I don't see how those who were willing to wait and see should subsidize those who have buyers remorse.

[CaffeinePowered]

I had a funny thought last night, that Windows 7 doesn't really exist.

What you are actually Beta Testing is Vista Service Pack 2, its like those stupid Mojave commercials, except on a massive scale. I'm expecting steve ballmer to come out like some maniacal jester and laugh at everyone who said Vista sucks but has liked Windows 7.

[Surf314]

[quote author=Surf314 link=topic=2087.msg61337#msg61337 date=1231957270]
I was reading an article on how they should have 2 versions of windows 7.  A core version as a free Vista upgrade and an ultimate with all the features.  I agree, I'm one of many that feels ripped off by Vista.  I even did the digital upgrade to ultimate for some features that I needed that turned out to be completely shit in implementation.

At the risk of sounding like a dick, that is the risk people run when they do early adoption. I don't see how those who were willing to wait and see should subsidize those who have buyers remorse.
[/quote]

See this is the problem, too many that work at MS think like you.  Microsoft aren't selling a product, they are selling updates.  They are getting lifelong customers that will repeatedly buy updates to the product they already bought.  They are basically service providers.  Now think about it.  They recently overcharged for a bad service update.  Many people bought it expecting it would be a requirement for the things they need.  I mean there is a lot of tech oblivious people out there that buy the latest version because they think they have to.  That's probably a big chunk of their customers.  The other side are people that are knowledgeable, decided to take a chance and feel like idiots.

Now they are releasing a product that is, like said, pretty much Vista SP2.  It's Vista but it works better.  Now in the interest of keeping lifelong customers the very best thing they can do is offer a core version of Windows 7 as a free Vista upgrade.  I'm not talking about all the new features and stuff.  Just the core that is Vista but better.  Then offer a an ultimate upgrade for around $150 for Vista owners and more for XP owners.

I mean when you really think about it in business terms it makes sense.  When you go with an OS you go for it long term.  Linux is free and OSX is gaining popularity for a variety of reasons including Vista.  You need to win back customers.  Like Ainmosni said as long as windows keeps their customers any other OS will be no more than a niche market.  It's just a fact of the business.  They will more than make up for any lost profits they have for doing this in new computer sales with W7 and upgrades to ultimate versions of W7 not to mention keeping customers and maybe even winning some back.

It's not about subsidizing or buyers remorse, it's about smart business.  Goodwill is a very large part of the value of these companies.  I mean just look at the goodwill Apple and Linux has and how it creates a disproportionate amount of value.  People are willing to go through a lot of trouble learning Linux based on people talking it up, and people are also willing to pay a premium for Apple because of the cult of Mac and the goodwill it has.  Microsoft will remain stagnant as seller of operating systems until it wins back some goodwill.

[ainmosni]

I had a funny thought last night, that Windows 7 doesn't really exist.

What you are actually Beta Testing is Vista Service Pack 2, its like those stupid Mojave commercials, except on a massive scale. I'm expecting steve ballmer to come out like some maniacal jester and laugh at everyone who said Vista sucks but has liked Windows 7.

While being at risk of repeating myself: this is the truth. W7 is Vista SP2 with some extra make up and optimised a bit...

[Spore]

I mean just look at the goodwill Apple has

...and people are also willing to pay a premium for Apple because of the cult of Mac and the goodwill it has.

Care to elaborate on what Apple's goodwill is?

[Mission Difficult]

[quote author=Surf314 link=topic=2087.msg61473#msg61473 date=1232030171]
I mean just look at the goodwill Apple has

...and people are also willing to pay a premium for Apple because of the cult of Mac and the goodwill it has.

Care to elaborate on what Apple's goodwill is?
[/quote]

They take all that money off your hands.

[Spore]

[quote author=Spore link=topic=2087.msg61577#msg61577 date=1232074868]
[quote author=Surf314 link=topic=2087.msg61473#msg61473 date=1232030171]
I mean just look at the goodwill Apple has

...and people are also willing to pay a premium for Apple because of the cult of Mac and the goodwill it has.

Care to elaborate on what Apple's goodwill is?
[/quote]

They take all that money off your hands.
[/quote]

It was just weighing me down anyway.

[ainmosni]

[quote author=Surf314 link=topic=2087.msg61473#msg61473 date=1232030171]
I mean just look at the goodwill Apple has

...and people are also willing to pay a premium for Apple because of the cult of Mac and the goodwill it has.

Care to elaborate on what Apple's goodwill is?
[/quote]

It mostly has to do with giving the user a very slick user experience and giving good support. Hell I've only used it on my non-mac gaming rig and it's a pleasure to work with... More so than linux or windows. (And I'm an open source fanboy so that says a lot)

[Mission Difficult]

Hell I've only used it on my non-mac gaming rig...

I read that as "om-nom gaming rig."

[Spore]

[quote author=Spore link=topic=2087.msg61577#msg61577 date=1232074868]
[quote author=Surf314 link=topic=2087.msg61473#msg61473 date=1232030171]
I mean just look at the goodwill Apple has

...and people are also willing to pay a premium for Apple because of the cult of Mac and the goodwill it has.

Care to elaborate on what Apple's goodwill is?
[/quote]

It mostly has to do with giving the user a very slick user experience and giving good support. Hell I've only used it on my non-mac gaming rig and it's a pleasure to work with... More so than linux or windows. (And I'm an open source fanboy so that says a lot)
[/quote]

So now that Microsoft is actually doing good things to their OS's usability and stability people start bitching that they want it free. Come to think of it, maybe it would have been a free service pack for Vista if people would get off the "Durr Vista r teh suckz" bandwagon. Microsoft has to make a new Windows simply because there is too much shit slinging around whenever Vista is mentioned. Besides, by the time Windows 7 comes out, Vista will have been around for over 3 years. If you take 4 seconds to look at Microsoft's history, you will see that releasing an OS every 4 or 3 years is common. Look at Windows 95 to 98 to 2000 to XP. 3 years, 2 years, 1 year between those OS's respectively. Also of note is that Windows 7 truly does change quite a lot over Vista from stability, speed, and new features. It is primed to be just as worthy an OS upgrade as any other. Also, it isn't like you HAVE to upgrade your OS the day it comes out. Look what that did for XP folks who got Vista day 1, now they are all pissed. It isn't like Microsoft is just going to stop supporting Vista after 7. You will see more service packs as time goes on. So, there is my rant on how all you guys should suck it up and buy the OS at full price or wait until later.

[ainmosni]

[quote author=ainmosni link=topic=2087.msg61604#msg61604 date=1232097616]
[quote author=Spore link=topic=2087.msg61577#msg61577 date=1232074868]
[quote author=Surf314 link=topic=2087.msg61473#msg61473 date=1232030171]
I mean just look at the goodwill Apple has

...and people are also willing to pay a premium for Apple because of the cult of Mac and the goodwill it has.

Care to elaborate on what Apple's goodwill is?
[/quote]

It mostly has to do with giving the user a very slick user experience and giving good support. Hell I've only used it on my non-mac gaming rig and it's a pleasure to work with... More so than linux or windows. (And I'm an open source fanboy so that says a lot)
[/quote]

So now that Microsoft is actually doing good things to their OS's usability and stability people start bitching that they want it free. Come to think of it, maybe it would have been a free service pack for Vista if people would get off the "Durr Vista r teh suckz" bandwagon. Microsoft has to make a new Windows simply because there is too much shit slinging around whenever Vista is mentioned. Besides, by the time Windows 7 comes out, Vista will have been around for over 3 years. If you take 4 seconds to look at Microsoft's history, you will see that releasing an OS every 4 or 3 years is common. Look at Windows 95 to 98 to 2000 to XP. 3 years, 2 years, 1 year between those OS's respectively. Also of note is that Windows 7 truly does change quite a lot over Vista from stability, speed, and new features. It is primed to be just as worthy an OS upgrade as any other. Also, it isn't like you HAVE to upgrade your OS the day it comes out. Look what that did for XP folks who got Vista day 1, now they are all pissed. It isn't like Microsoft is just going to stop supporting Vista after 7. You will see more service packs as time goes on. So, there is my rant on how all you guys should suck it up and buy the OS at full price or wait until later.
[/quote]

I'm not saying they should give it away for free... Although it would go a long way with a lot of people who were burnt on Vista...

I'm saying W7 is a lot more polished than vista and a step in the right direction for the windows family of operating systems. What I will say is that I will not buy Windows 7 or any other Microsoft OS because, to be totally honest, I don't want to run it anyway. The only reason I run it is because I want to play games, which I do actually pay for... If it was up to me I'd play those games under Mac OS X or a Linux distribution but that's not really an option at the moment. So until the time that I can totally wipe windows off my hard disk I will pirate it.

Don't get me wrong, I like it that windows 7 runs better than windows vista... But most of this is coming from that vista was such a lemon that many people were considering alternatives and that MS needed to put out a good OS before people really jumped shit.

This is all my opinion of course and if you're happy running windows, by all means, do so but I will keep dreaming of a more open Operating System market where I'm not forced to run something I don't really want to run.

[CaffeinePowered]

This is all my opinion of course and if you're happy running windows, by all means, do so but I will keep dreaming of a more open Operating System market where I'm not forced to run something I don't really want to run.

And Ill keep dreaming of the day when I can seamlessly run all of my games on an open OS with little/no hassles or jumping through loops, which unfortunately I don't think will happen  :'(


That being said Ill be early adopter bitch since I can probably get it for $50 or less.

[Surf314]

For the record I'm not saying I want them to give me free shit I just think that it would honestly make them more money in the long run if they released W7 core (just the optimization no new features) for free only for vista users.

The quick reasons are creating brand loyalty and most people would buy the full version anyway.

[KarthXLR]

I think it'd be cool if more developers made games for the mac.

But at the same time, Mac's just don't work for gaming. The only one that could work to "keep up" with gaming is the Power Mac which is a MONSTER.

[Mission Difficult]

I think it'd be cool if more developers made games for the mac.

But at the same time, Mac's just don't work for gaming. The only one that could work to "keep up" with gaming is the Power Mac which is a MONSTER.

I'm pretty sure they stopped using the term Power Mac after the G5's. It's Mac Pro now. Get with it.

[KarthXLR]

[quote author=Ye Salty Karth link=topic=2087.msg61685#msg61685 date=1232148900]
I think it'd be cool if more developers made games for the mac.

But at the same time, Mac's just don't work for gaming. The only one that could work to "keep up" with gaming is the Power Mac which is a MONSTER.

I'm pretty sure they stopped using the term Power Mac after the G5's. It's Mac Pro now. Get with it.
[/quote]
Really? Believe it or not I only keep up with the new iMacs. Is it really Mac Pro?

Edit: Well I'll be. It's a mac pro. And it's even more-so a monster than it was 4 years ago.

[ainmosni]

[quote author=ainmosni link=topic=2087.msg61632#msg61632 date=1232133544]

This is all my opinion of course and if you're happy running windows, by all means, do so but I will keep dreaming of a more open Operating System market where I'm not forced to run something I don't really want to run.

And Ill keep dreaming of the day when I can seamlessly run all of my games on an open OS with little/no hassles or jumping through loops, which unfortunately I don't think will happen  :'(
[/quote]

Actually, in theory, that could be linux... One could just install a game in a diff OS profile where no extra GUI stuff (hell not even a window manager) is loaded for optimised performance... Also, as long as linux supports the hardware you have it's the easiest OS to install, period. It just works, no bothersome driver cd's or downloads...

Hardware manufacturers (read Intel and AMD) are opening their specs up so that open source drivers for anything made by them will be a reality soon. This stuff will make me buy ATi video cards for the first time in over a decade... This year, linux will be a real good gaming OS... now if they'd only make the games...  :'(

[chronomaster]

Not to get banned from the internet or anything (since even so much as thinking of supporting Vista seems to get you a severe beating, apparently), but thus far I haven't had any problems with Vista. It may not be as efficient as XP, but so far it hasn't caused a serious problem while I was working (it has crashed when I finished working. Strange, that).

That said, and my account deletion just a few clicks away now, I have been considering loading W7 and taking it for a spin. I just don't have the proper means to do it, since I'd be risking most of my system (or time, as the case may be) to a spectacular failure, or Microsoft telling me to pony up the dough to continue using my system.

[Luinbariel]

I'm trying W7 on my laptop.

At the moment I really like it, actually. Aside from a few silly issues, it's really quite nice.