Now this is FPS SKILL

[ainmosni]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...king+it+2#

It made me miss the old Q3A days and also made me kind of sad that games like MW2 are seen as 'hardcore' these days...

[KarthXLR]

But MW2 is hardcore(hide'n'seek)!

[rumsfald]

I loved this video so much, it made me buy an Adam Freeland album for the "we want your soul" song.


(not different from how I got the DJ Champion for that Borderlands song).

[copulatingduck]

you should check out some of the videos from the defrag world cups. more of the same, but with the best in the world doing it on lan on maps made for speed runs. loved the music in this btw

and I don't think anyone believes MW is hardcore except for the people that play MW lol

[Squishy3]

you should check out some of the videos from the defrag world cups. more of the same, but with the best in the world doing it on lan on maps made for speed runs. loved the music in this btw

and I don't think anyone believes MW is hardcore except for versus

[ainmosni]

you should check out some of the videos from the defrag world cups. more of the same, but with the best in the world doing it on lan on maps made for speed runs. loved the music in this btw

and I don't think anyone believes MW is hardcore except for the people that play MW lol

Aye, the defrag videos are awesome... It's just a shame that the era of fast paced games seems to be over...

[copulatingduck]

Yea, i know what you mean. Even quake live, which (for a while) reinvigorated the quake community is dying out. Between the increased costs from maintenance and upkeep, decreased revenue from advertisements (I really think it takes a special kind of moron to click an in-game advertisement), and a withering community, iD has been second-guessing their plan to back the franchise into the new millenium (at least in a form that's a throwback to the old days). It looks like Quake - long considered the last bastion for the truly hardcore fps-freaks - is on its way out the door, and we'll probably never see anything else like it, as developers are shooting for something with a hook that they can market, not unlike when Professional Wrestling transitioned from its Golden Days to what even the businesses' propietors refer to as the "Attitude Era," and it's a fucking shame

[CaffeinePowered]

Duck I think its more along the lines of no one making a good successor  :-\

Quake live is cool and all, but its still just the old quake, we've all played it, I would really like to see something brand new with the same old glitchy physics engine

[copulatingduck]

My point is that I don't see anyone making another successor. More and more we're seeing instances of Decent-gameplay-with-a-hook trumping Great-gameplay (see: Modern Warfare with vehicles, Modern Warfare with perks-centric deathmatching, Cartoon/Comic based graphics, Massive continental-sized campaigns, Franchise-based multiplayer, Class-based team-deathmatch, et al). Balance, breadth, and depth of gameplay have taken a backseat to the passing whims and fancies of an ever-growing hivemind (thanks for nothing internet).

I'm not going to pretend I understand the root of the cause, I haven't been gaming on PCs for all that long. But my impression is that PC gamers in general are a lot fucking dumber now than they were 1-2 decades ago, when it took someone reasonably intelligent and supremely nerdy to put together their own gaming rig and spend their time playing PC games online with complete strangers. Nowadays, PC gaming is fairly accessible to the masses, an advent perhaps that developers celebrated (vast new markets previously untapped), but that has probably dumbed down PC gaming forever. Just about any moron can put together or buy a PC capable of gaming online, and most of them have (see: MW2). It also doesn't hurt that gaming is more socially acceptable than it once was. This flock of everymen to PC gaming has drastically changed the demographic that developers once catered to, going from the nerdy, possibly-basement-dwelling, thinking-man to the doritos-chomping, spoiled-middle-class McD's-future-manager

Look at TF2 as an example. I'm not saying that and of the old fortress games were perfect, far from that. But TF2's skill ceiling and the pace of gameplay are so far removed from its predecessors that it might as well be called "A Different Class-Based Video Game." Sure, you still have demomen, heavies, etc etc, but the pace is so miserably slow (exacerbated exponentially by the average tf2-players' penchant for Attack/Defend and Payload gameplay), and the action is so mind-numbingly sporadic (well that uber failed, let's wait 2--5 minutes while our medic dies/dies/dies/gets an uber) that all you ever hear from the majority of Fortress vets is "it's just not the same at all"

---

tldr the pc gaming of yore is not coming back and you only have the vastly expanded market herd of retards really, really, dumb people to blame (well that and the developers who have the nerve to try and make a buck)

[Wedge]

The thing no one really wants to accept, is all the old fashioned super fast glitchy FPS games only ever appealed to an incredibly small demographic capable of developing the skills necessary to play them.  I know I'm NOT one of those people, as the skill ceiling is so high that the tactical element of the games (which is what mostly interests me) would never even come into play.  I think there is a happy middleground between those games and shit like MW2 though, which I think TF2 falls into when it's NOT a shitty A/D style map.

[rumsfald]

The thing no one really wants to accept, is all the old fashioned super fast glitchy FPS games only ever appealed to an incredibly small demographic capable of developing the skills necessary to play them. 

(background: q3atest was my first internet love).

Couldn't it also be said that high-end RTS games (starcraft, company of heroes) also require superior high-end skills that only apply to a small demographic? And yet the hype for SC2 seems high.

I think, even if some developer doesn't make a good Q3 successor, some mod-maker will. For me, I stopped playing Q3A when I started playing counterstrike beta.

If you believe that the internet enables the long tail, as I do, then some developer or mod maker (or even free developer) will come along and make the game you want. For me, League of Legends is currently the coolest free game around (granted, not a FPS, but requires similar practice and skill). 

[Wedge]

[quote author=Wedge link=topic=4232.msg137889#msg137889 date=1266800592]
The thing no one really wants to accept, is all the old fashioned super fast glitchy FPS games only ever appealed to an incredibly small demographic capable of developing the skills necessary to play them. 

(background: q3atest was my first internet love).

Couldn't it also be said that high-end RTS games (starcraft, company of heroes) also require superior high-end skills that only apply to a small demographic? And yet the hype for SC2 seems high.

I think, even if some developer doesn't make a good Q3 successor, some mod-maker will. For me, I stopped playing Q3A when I started playing counterstrike beta.

If you believe that the internet enables the long tail, as I do, then some developer or mod maker (or even free developer) will come along and make the game you want. For me, League of Legends is currently the coolest free game around (granted, not a FPS, but requires similar practice and skill). 
[/quote]

Yeah they already made that game, it's called Warsow, and nobody plays it.  I believe there's also a free comp play game based on CS 1.6 style that nobody plays either.

Starcraft at a competition level does only apply to a small group of people.  However, Blizzard has always been smart in allowing their games to appeal to a wide range of skill levels.  I also bet you a large number of people that play Starcraft, never do so online, or only with friends.  At least that's what I figure... I'm entirely adverse to RTS in almost all forms, so I have no interest in it.

[zaneyard]

[quote author=rumsfald link=topic=4232.msg137893#msg137893 date=1266804107]
[quote author=Wedge link=topic=4232.msg137889#msg137889 date=1266800592]
The thing no one really wants to accept, is all the old fashioned super fast glitchy FPS games only ever appealed to an incredibly small demographic capable of developing the skills necessary to play them. 

(background: q3atest was my first internet love).

Couldn't it also be said that high-end RTS games (starcraft, company of heroes) also require superior high-end skills that only apply to a small demographic? And yet the hype for SC2 seems high.

I think, even if some developer doesn't make a good Q3 successor, some mod-maker will. For me, I stopped playing Q3A when I started playing counterstrike beta.

If you believe that the internet enables the long tail, as I do, then some developer or mod maker (or even free developer) will come along and make the game you want. For me, League of Legends is currently the coolest free game around (granted, not a FPS, but requires similar practice and skill). 
[/quote]

Yeah they already made that game, it's called Warsow, and nobody plays it.  I believe there's also a free comp play game based on CS 1.6 style that nobody plays either.

Starcraft at a competition level does only apply to a small group of people.  However, Blizzard has always been smart in allowing their games to appeal to a wide range of skill levels.  I also bet you a large number of people that play Starcraft, never do so online, or only with friends.  At least that's what I figure... I'm entirely adverse to RTS in almost all forms, so I have no interest in it.
[/quote]
don't you pretty much hate all games?

[cbre88x]

don't you pretty much hate all games?

[Wedge]

don't you pretty much hate all games?

Nope, it just looks that way when you like every game.

And I don't really "hate" rts games, they're just not a style of gameplay I'm comfortable with.  I just always end up wishing I could control them in a turn based manner instead.

[zaneyard]

anyways, just watched the video and it's pretty damn awesome
although it's totally the reason why i don't play the original UT online, people have been playing it since the early 1600s there's no chance of me actually doing anything
that's why i see sequels as being played more often, they don't have the old school followers from the old game and it gives people new to the game a chance to play it
you're always going to have the hardcore group of people that complain the sequel isn't like the original

also, i just helped my friend get 100 percent in special ops on MW2 last night
it was pretty hardcore

seriously, it took us two hours to do the last challenge on veteran

as far as starcraft goes
if you've ever heard of reddit or iccup there is a large group of people that are willing to either help you get better, or a large group of people at your skill level. the easiest way to get better at something is someone telling you what you did wrong.

[Tricks]

The one thing I have never understood about gamers is the way we approach titles we don’t like. Isn’t it enough to say “I love playing this game” and we leave it at that?

So Wedge likes turn-based RPGs. That’s cool. Why is that bad? Zane likes MW2. Why is that bad? My girlfriend only likes playing Wii Bowling. That’s not "1337" at all, but I think it’s pretty cool. She has a great time.

The issue that gaming is a relative experience. You are trying to objectively rank something that that is utterly subjective.

Instead, you should be happy that people spend money and contribute towards the industry that supports our favorite hobby: gaming.

Is that really too much to ask?

[Surf314]

The one thing I have never understood about gamers is the way we approach titles we don’t like. Isn’t it enough to say “I love playing this game” and we leave it at that?

So Wedge likes turn-based RPGs. That’s cool. Why is that bad? Zane likes MW2. Why is that bad? My girlfriend only likes playing Wii Bowling. That’s not "1337" at all, but I think it’s pretty cool. She has a great time.

The issue that gaming is a relative experience. You are trying to objectively rank something that that is utterly subjective.

Instead, you should be happy that people spend money and contribute towards the industry that supports our favorite hobby: gaming.

Is that really too much to ask?

She plays on a Wii? ZOMG only lamers play on Wii's. Cool people get 360s

/sarcasm

Unfortunately though a lot of "geekdom" has devolved into raising the banner of our patron tech/game peddler and getting into trolling wars with each other.

[CaffeinePowered]

Instead, you should be happy that people spend money and contribute towards the industry that supports our favorite hobby: gaming.

Is that really too much to ask?

I'm all for live and let live, it just really irks me when developers nudge something that's otherwise completely economically viable out of the picture. If developers were all about making profits I would think they would recognize the value in making a more "hardcore" game, even if its a niche audience, that just means you spend less producing it to make up for the smaller number of sales.

Some more recent games like Sword of the Stars are perfect examples of niche turn based games that didn't cost a lot to produce, but they sold well enough to make the company that created them money.

I think its the same problem developers have peering through a looking glass thinking they must make that hit title that appeals to everyone. Sure, go spend 100m on one game and hope it hits paydirt, or you could take that 100m and easily make 10 - 20 games of varying niche genres, maybe the combined sales might actually add up to more.

Same deal with Hollywood, which is why I really hope D9 takes home the gold, just to show that you don't need an enormous budget and special effects to make a good character/plot driven movie.

[Tricks]

[quote author=TR1CK link=topic=4232.msg137963#msg137963 date=1266862730]
Instead, you should be happy that people spend money and contribute towards the industry that supports our favorite hobby: gaming.

Is that really too much to ask?

I'm all for live and let live, it just really irks me when developers nudge something that's otherwise completely economically viable out of the picture. If developers were all about making profits I would think they would recognize the value in making a more "hardcore" game, even if its a niche audience, that just means you spend less producing it to make up for the smaller number of sales.

Some more recent games like Sword of the Stars are perfect examples of niche turn based games that didn't cost a lot to produce, but they sold well enough to make the company that created them money.

I think its the same problem developers have peering through a looking glass thinking they must make that hit title that appeals to everyone. Sure, go spend 100m on one game and hope it hits paydirt, or you could take that 100m and easily make 10 - 20 games of varying niche genres, maybe the combined sales might actually add up to more.

Same deal with Hollywood, which is why I really hope D9 takes home the gold, just to show that you don't need an enormous budget and special effects to make a good character/plot driven movie.
[/quote]

I definitely understand that. It’s kind of like music, in a way. You have people that are proud to support their little known artists. Then you have people who love U2 and Coldplay.

Is there a wrong answer? In my mind, sure. But we aren’t the same. I think insulting somebody else because of their views or what they like only shows that you are trying to prove something to yourself at the expense of another human being.

I don’t have anything to prove. I love what I love, and I am glad you love what you do.

I think we can raise the bar for our standards of dialogue without being insincere about it. That’s all I’m trying to say.