Class Limits

[Radio Raheem]

The only class I think has to have a limit is engineer. As Caff said people on pubs are too stupid to figure out how to organize and counter them so the game just ends up being really boring. When your team has 5 engies its unbreakable and at the same time you have absolutely 0 offense. Ends up being a terrible turtle fest for both teams. Although offensive engie rushes can be pretty awesome on something like Canal Zone.

[copulatingduck]

The only class I think has to have a limit is engineer. As Caff said people on pubs are too stupid to figure out how to organize and counter them so the game just ends up being really boring. When your team has 5 engies its unbreakable and at the same time you have absolutely 0 offense. Ends up being a terrible turtle fest for both teams. Although offensive engie rushes can be pretty awesome on something like Canal Zone.

Zerg Rush kekeke?

[Negate]

[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1188.msg31424#msg31424 date=1218992887]
Spy - 2 or 3 - Ever play spy alone, then 2 or 3 other spies that suck start playing spy, makes your job infinitely harder

GOD I hate that.
[/quote]
Happens to me almost every single time I play spy. Theres just something about seeing a spy top the scoreboard that makes all the idiots want to join in.
I am in favor of class limits after the update because stupidly stacked teams just fail so hard. I think within the community after heavy mania passes we could be trusted to maintain proper balance but pub scrubs can't.

[KarthXLR]

it's reasonable to set a class limit after updates or during spamming trips. (Overpowered pyro spam) However, having them on a pub server will leave many people upset or angry, and we may lose potential members.

Having class limits isn't a bad thing, but having them on a pub server 24/7 isn't a wise decision.

[copulatingduck]

Just to let you folks know:

Sorry, but this isn't debatable for #2. This poll could be 23:1 in favor of removing limits, and I would still leave class limits. The fact that no one has really noticed or spoken up until the "Server Plugins" thread just tells me that you're all a bunch of wankers crying "freedom of class selection" who were barely affected by the plugin, if at all. Do me a favor and stfu. The community is getting large enough that I feel it's perfectly reasonable to have 2 servers that cater to slightly different crowds (crits vs nocrits, for example).

Class limits aren't leaving. With Dave's help, I think I finally got configs to work properly, so among other things admins can (hopefully) remove class limits for the current map. That's the best you'll get from me.

[Dave]

i dont see the problem with class limits, we can allways turn them of temporerorerorly, and you shouldnt WANT more then 3 people in one class, i just played ctf_well all 3 of my snipers SUCKED ASS, like they cleaned that poop right off that hole, the only reason we didnt have 5 shitty snipers, was because i was shouting at people.

[K2]

I just check the class balance often. If the team needs something I'll switch, if there's too much of what I am I'll switch.

I do the exact same thing. I check class numbers so often that I've started just pressing comma every time I die out of habit.

In an ideal world, I'd say no to class limits, but between pubs making half a team snipers or spies and a group of friends stacking a team with engys, we need limits in order to keep the game enjoyable for everyone. It'd be nice to be able to rush an entire team as one class for fun/surprise on a whim every once and a while, but I'm fine with losing that in exchange for more balanced, and consequently more entertaining, games during regular play. I don't like being told what class I can or cannot play as, but when you think about it, the few times you wouldn't be able to pick a certain class because of a bunch of pubs stacking it, you really need to pick another class in order for your team to stand a chance anyway.

[cbre88x]

Don't talk shit about saying class limits effect the game. The only time having more than a standard amount of a certain class does any good is when it is a coordinated effort and I'm afraid to say that 95% of the time it is not. It's like sniping on Mach 4. I'll be at the top of the charts and 4 pub scrubs feel like they can do a better job than I can and switch to sniper at the same time.

Guess what happens.

It's happened on more than just 1 occasion and more than one map.

[CaffeinePowered]

I would just like to state like duck I am extremely disappointed in people's reactions to this, a limit of 3 - 4 (25% - 33% of your team on a full server) seems perfectly reasonable, its not like someone would be setting the limits to add up to exactly 12 so that you would actually be forced to play a certain class.

#1 would likely be 3 snipers, 4 engineers, and 3 of whatever the flavor of the month is (soon to be heavy). I will be doing something similar to duck to have an executable config admins can use to disable this.


I would like to reiterate that I'm very very disappointed at the over-reactions to this, no one is telling you what class to play or how to play it, we just want to nudge things a bit to keep the game fun for everyone so you don't end up on the team with 4 cuntwads that refuse to play anything but sniper, or end up running into a wall of 5 engineers.

[ScottyGrayskull]

I'm going to backpedal on my previous position on this. As long as they're reasonable, I don't see a problem with class limits. It can be annoying when the class you really want to play is full, but that just gives you an excuse to get some practice time in with another class. I've played on other servers lately that had class limits and wan't really bothered with it.

My only objection with them now is when they aren't across the board. It's very frustrating to be scout-rushed and not be able to switch to a pyro for example. If they're applied to all classes, then I have no problem with it. Doesn't have to be the same number either either.

[Eschatos]

I can accept class limits, but please make the maximum four instead of three.  Three is just too restrictive.

[Spore]

For every pyro on the server at any one time, the game inevitably gets half as fun. That is about the only class that is really annoying in numbers. Maybe soldier too considering they are so powerful.

[CaffeinePowered]

I can accept class limits, but please make the maximum four instead of three.  Three is just too restrictive.

3 or 4 depending on the class was what I was planning on doing anyway, just everyone bawwwwws at the prospect, ffs, worst case scenario if its 3 or 4 per, the only way you are not going to get your #1 or #2 choice in class is if people are stacking 4 of 2 other classes, and the odds of that happening are very small

[Luca Shoal]

Crazy thought...can BOTH sides stop bitching? Srsly, no offense Caff, but you complaining thato ther people complaining just makes me :|.

If people *Really* don't like the class limits *THAT* much, they can go elsewhere, simple. But EVERYONE is being a bit of a whiny bitch about this to me.

So....to quote the mighty robit of this sites origins....STFUAJPG.

edit - this isn't meant as an attack on any one person, especially Caff. You've been doing a good job mang. I'm just venting that to many people are being whiny bitches and forgetting why we're even here.

[Neonie]

• no skins - Yah this sucks... if the wallhack models didn't exist I would turn it back on in an instant...
  
• enforced class limits - I can understand the hate for enforced classes but imho too many people spamming a class ruins the game more than having to change class, all IMHO off course, for now I'm only going to limit heavy when the update hits and I'll see about further limits later on.
  
• no crits - On #2 and serious matches only... Allthough I do think turning off crits make the game flow a lot more naturally I do appreciate crits for bringing a random element t the game.
  
• 15 second mic spam ban - I will never put this on #3, the thought of this detection fucking up is scary and a little mic spam during the more boring games never hurt anyone... I can understand why it's on #2 though...
  

I think this is the best answer I've ever gotten from a server admin...ever. (when it comes to these matters anyway).

Also I would like to state I really don't care much about the class limits if I'm being completely honest, that's the least of the things that bother me, as I have several classes I can play and am good at. My above statement was trying to see into the eye of someone may not be ingrained in the community and might just play TF2 on random servers. An average person.

[Neonie]

Crazy thought...can BOTH sides stop bitching? Srsly, no offense Caff, but you complaining thato ther people complaining just makes me :|.

If people *Really* don't like the class limits *THAT* much, they can go elsewhere, simple. But EVERYONE is being a bit of a whiny bitch about this to me.

So....to quote the mighty robit of this sites origins....STFUAJPG.

edit - this isn't meant as an attack on any one person, especially Caff. You've been doing a good job meng. I'm just venting that to many people are being whiny bitches and forgetting why we're even here.

Fixed.

[Luca Shoal]

mang is singular, meng is plural. Caff is a singular, and therefore, mang.

[hawtpawkithero]

Why don't we just leave them off except for when a patch comes out? Restrict the patched class to 4 per team, and tell players trying to select said class that there's servers out there for achievement whoring, maybe even give them an IP and that should clear out the whores a bit.

[CaffeinePowered]

Crazy thought...can BOTH sides stop bitching? Srsly, no offense Caff, but you complaining thato ther people complaining just makes me :|.

If people *Really* don't like the class limits *THAT* much, they can go elsewhere, simple. But EVERYONE is being a bit of a whiny bitch about this to me.

So....to quote the mighty robit of this sites origins....STFUAJPG.

edit - this isn't meant as an attack on any one person, especially Caff. You've been doing a good job mang. I'm just venting that to many people are being whiny bitches and forgetting why we're even here.

Yea I know, pot and kettle right

I just wasn't expecting people to think class limits = omg ur telling me how to play, and I completely disagree with it. I'm going to stick with what I said in an earlier post and no go any farther with it since theres no clear majority.

And Neonie to answer your questions, I pretty much echo what Ain said. If I could turn on weapon models without turning on player models I would, but unfortunately they are tied together. See this video for an example as to why custom skins are not allowed, theres even a fucking rapidshare link in the description of the video for the skins. There is no way for VAC to detect this.

Crits, well thats Duck's server and he can do with it what he wants, I won't turn them off on #1 unless someone is doing some kind of match. There are a lot of different players who like different environments and since we have multiple servers we can have multiple set-ups so that everyone can have an enjoyable experience.

Mic spam, well I don't have mine set to ban, just mute. If you want to play a short clip thats less than 20s, feel free because thats the limit I set on #1. It will never mute you for holding your mic open either, it just detects HLDJ and other mic-spam programs. The majority of players don't mic spam and most people will never notice this. If you want to listen to music while you play fire up iTunes before you launch TF2, but you shouldn't have to subject everyone else to your tunes also.

As far as our rules go Neonie ours are fairly lax in the grand scheme of things. Other servers will mute/kick/ban you for cursing, some will punish you for fucking around. Granted there are other servers with zero rules, but theres also a lot more with stricter rules than we have.

I would like to apologize for being bitchy, however but from my perspective at least theres been limits on pyros since the update and the only person to raise any complaint about it was ScottyG whose only issue was that I should extend them to all classes or no classes.

If you have any other questions Ill be glad to answer them.

[Squishy3]

on an unrelated note: I like how terrible of a player the person in the video is. And lol @ how he runs TF2, I could never play it like that.