Helloooo new resource system (AKA NTU's)

[KorJax]

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/inde...amp.83018/

Our primary goal for re-addressing the resource system is to make sure it does a better job making resources drive the combat taking place, make sure they have real strategic value, and generally have more meaning than they have currently.

This is a relatively complicated system - you know, a lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta what-have-you's. I've done my best to try and distill the essence of a 25 page design document down into something more easily digestible, so these are just the broad strokes of the plan we're currently mulling over.
Resources are reduced to a single currency and acquisition timers are removed.
Inventory for infantry items is removed - changed to pay on use
Individual Bases/Facilities supply Resources for local players
Bases/Facilities have a power level that is drained by providing resources to local players
There is a passive power regen to offset the cost of small skirmishes and to restore full power when no combat is taking place.
Full powered bases provide more resources than low powered ones
The more players being given resources, the faster the power drain
Addition of Auraxium Crystals/Mines as a power source
These are resource nodes added in between facilities
Vehicles fitted with appropriate equipment can load up auraxium at these nodes
This auraxium can be transported to a base to manually refill it’s power reserves
When a base is totally out of power, no resources are provided to the friendly troops in the area. This allows the attacker cut off entrenched defenders from using resources if they can keep supply vehicles from breaking their blockade
There's still a lot of other little nuances and details but I think that gives a decent overall picture. It's a pretty significant departure from the current system - do you think this plan would make resources a more interesting component of the game? Does it go too far? Let us know.

Basically:

- all resources are merged into one resource

- you spend this one resource like normal (inventory for nades/explosives are gone, you spend them on a need-to-buy basis now). Acquisition Timer is no longer a thing (perhaps the cert tree will be refunded, or will simply reduce the cost of X asset the farther you cert into it... ideally the latter!)

- however you can only recharge this one resource from bases/facilities instead of every 5 minutes from territory owned. Every base has a "power meter" that gets drained to refill resource pools that players require to refill their resource pools.

- when a base runs out of power, it can no longer supply resource units to the players, meaning the players eventually run out

- bases passively recharge their resources slowly, so bases that aren't being fought over with more than a small skirmish or so will generally stay pretty topped off

- under a large siege, you can outfit certain vehicles with "resource gatherers" making them basically into mining units. You then mine the territory for crystals or resources to give the base you are at a resource boost, allowing it to continue to recharge player's individual resource pools even under stress. Therefore, a key component for outlasting an opponent is to keep your resource meter topped off and prevent your miner-vehicles from getting destroyed by the enemy.

SOUNDS RAD

My only issue is that there isn't anything really to make territory relevant for the metagame except to "win it all" or get facilities. I.e. having certain types of territory or more territory is meaningless under this system, the only thing that matters is having the facilities you need (of which, the only ones that matter are the tech plants). If they overhaul the facility benefits, and give some kind of reason to want to push other than to win (it doens't have to involve resources though) then I think this would synergize with the new resource system greatly

[KorJax]

BONUS: Contenant lock mechanics detailed:

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/inde...ing.82996/

[FlyingMongoose]

Bases/Facilities have a power level that is drained by providing resources to local players

This to me says "Shared Resources" (amongst a particular base), this is a flawed mechanic, and usually is the biggest drawback in every game that I have played that has it. (Original Natural Selection, Empires, etc.), Natural Selection 2 actually took it out, individual players end up with individual resources gathered over time and the team resources are handled by the commander.

Anyway. The "Shared Resources" at "Bases/Facilities" actually creates a mechanic in which, you're right, no more infantry spawns. Oh wait, what's that mean? That means a large outfit who keeps pushing into a particular area to capture it will eventually be GUARANTEED to do so. Not "potentially won't", it means that they just need to block the flow of resources and poof. Facility is lost. Basically, what I see happening is when we get pushed back into our spawns in a facility, it is time to abandon that fight and move elsewhere. That is NOT what this game should be and that is a poor design decision.

[rumbot]

I will force myself to be optimistic based on the dude quote alone.

[KorJax]

Bases/Facilities have a power level that is drained by providing resources to local players

This to me says "Shared Resources" (amongst a particular base), this is a flawed mechanic, and usually is the biggest drawback in every game that I have played that has it. (Original Natural Selection, Empires, etc.), Natural Selection 2 actually took it out, individual players end up with individual resources gathered over time and the team resources are handled by the commander.

Anyway. The "Shared Resources" at "Bases/Facilities" actually creates a mechanic in which, you're right, no more infantry spawns. Oh wait, what's that mean? That means a large outfit who keeps pushing into a particular area to capture it will eventually be GUARANTEED to do so. Not "potentially won't", it means that they just need to block the flow of resources and poof. Facility is lost. Basically, what I see happening is when we get pushed back into our spawns in a facility, it is time to abandon that fight and move elsewhere. That is NOT what this game should be and that is a poor design decision.

Shared resources suck in NS because your entire team relies on it and if you are out, you are out until you get more.

But as a gamer who primarily enjoys team-based affairs rather than solo dick waving, I'll take playing a good shared-resource round with people that don't exploit it versus a round that has nothing like that anyday, because it really does make the game more strategically and tactically interesting when such mechanics are in place.

But that said, this is nothing like NS2. At all. Especially with the inclusion of ANT-like roles that gather resources. First of all, you still have personal resources that you can choose to blow and fail at as much as you want. Secondly, your ability to regenerate those resources depends on the base, not the whole map. Resources are -not- shared at all, your ability to regenerate your resources are. This is a key difference between something like NS and PS2. Another major difference is that it's done on a base-by-base basis - if your base is out of resources, then you can still spawn/fight/etc like normal, but you won't be able to get grenades/explosives/MAX's/tanks/etc if there are a ton of people straining the resource regeneration of that base and you decided to burn through your whole stockpile while you were at it.

This means getting more personal resources is as easy as being in warpgate, at a previous base, or in the base you are fighting in if it gets more juice.

Thirdly, during long sieges your team is basically expected to keep your base supplied with resources via ANT-like vehicle roles, which means its less about getting screwed by the dumbass and more about "well, you are statistically likely to run out of resources with the current population load on this territory in 5 minutes, so you need maintain an ANT logistics to keep the base topped off and prevent your faction from becoming resource starved at that hex"

Its really nothing like "resource sharing" in the traditional sense (especially since its not map wide but location-specific) but yet has all the benefits of being a hell of a lot more strategically interesting than the current system. I'm really excited to see how this'll work out for offenses and such - if you take too long to win an assault you might find your resources at your first point back pretty strained unless you guys have ANTs keeping that base supplied. Meanwhile, if you kill their resource incoming via their ANTs then you can effectively break a stalemate battle in your favor by lessening the amount of things they can reliably pull.

That said if they go with this idea they definatly need to increase the speed you get resources. It would suck to spend all your resources and then have to wait 20+ minutes to pull anything or spawn with any grenades/etc as you wait for them to fill back up. Or if you run out and your base runs out, having to wait 10 minutes at warpgate before you can afford to pull something else. Maybe they could have it so you get 1 resource every second, which obviously means every second the base you are at loses 1 point of power per person using that resource.

[FlyingMongoose]

Natural Selection the Mod is not the same as Natural Selection 2. I was referring to natural selection, not ns2.

The ANT-Like roles are nice, but ultimately, as long as there is any semblance of any shared resource the problem remains. Planetside 2 is a free to play game. And you will not get a lot of people not-exploiting it.

[[fr31ns]Karrde]

Clarification from Malorn: http://www.planetside-universe.com/showt...tid=937331

Also yeah, big outfits will be able to break this.  But that in all honesty is a design issue of PS2 itself.  Big outfits and large zergs will always break/abuse everything.  This is better than the current resource model and provides an NTU like effect.  It's not perfect by any means but it's probably the best we're going to get unless the devs decide to redesign the core mechanics of the entire game.

*edit*

Also, Sancs by another name XD

[Didzo]

If resources are unlimited at Warpgate, I can just see swarms of aircraft being the primary response unit to any base that's getting its shit boxed in.

[[fr31ns]Karrde]

If resources are unlimited at Warpgate, I can just see swarms of aircraft being the primary response unit to any base that's getting its shit boxed in.

Outfits already do that though (Gal swarms, etc)

Even further clarification from Malorn. http://www.planetside-universe.com/showt...tid=937345

[KorJax]

If resources are unlimited at Warpgate, I can just see swarms of aircraft being the primary response unit to any base that's getting its shit boxed in.

Resources are not "unlimited" or "limited" at any location because resources are something you only spend yourself from your own pool on your own dime. Not sure why people read this and immediately think that suddenly the whole faction is sharing the same resource pool and everything is ruined because apparently the vast majority of players in the game want to do nothing more than ruin the game for others.

The only thing that is shared between the faction is the generation of resources. You could hop into a base completely dried of of power and still be able to easily pull whatever you want as long as YOU have resources. But if you are at a base that is dried of power, with you also having no resources, you'll find yourself regenerating them at a much slower rate than desired to the point where you won't be able to pull stuff easily from that base as it lacks the power to sufficiently keep your resource bar topped off (assuming you don't keep immediatly spawning and blowing all your resources in which case you'll still have to wait, just like you do now).

[at0m]

WELP

[FlyingMongoose]

[quote author=Didzo link=topic=7054.msg269770#msg269770 date=1374302195]
If resources are unlimited at Warpgate, I can just see swarms of aircraft being the primary response unit to any base that's getting its shit boxed in.

Resources are not "unlimited" or "limited" at any location because resources are something you only spend yourself from your own pool on your own dime. Not sure why people read this and immediately think that suddenly the whole faction is sharing the same resource pool and everything is ruined because apparently the vast majority of players in the game want to do nothing more than ruin the game for others.

The only thing that is shared between the faction is the generation of resources. You could hop into a base completely dried of of power and still be able to easily pull whatever you want as long as YOU have resources. But if you are at a base that is dried of power, with you also having no resources, you'll find yourself regenerating them at a much slower rate than desired to the point where you won't be able to pull stuff easily from that base as it lacks the power to sufficiently keep your resource bar topped off (assuming you don't keep immediatly spawning and blowing all your resources in which case you'll still have to wait, just like you do now).
[/quote]
I hope your interpretation is correct that it is shared generation and not resources themselves. I'm still skeptical though. But if you are correct this could also prevent slipping by the lattice hacking terms and pulling out rear armor for a two way assault. Which means even less vehicular combat... To me at least.

[CaffeinePowered]

[quote author=KorJax link=topic=7054.msg269779#msg269779 date=1374333648]
[quote author=Didzo link=topic=7054.msg269770#msg269770 date=1374302195]
If resources are unlimited at Warpgate, I can just see swarms of aircraft being the primary response unit to any base that's getting its shit boxed in.

Resources are not "unlimited" or "limited" at any location because resources are something you only spend yourself from your own pool on your own dime. Not sure why people read this and immediately think that suddenly the whole faction is sharing the same resource pool and everything is ruined because apparently the vast majority of players in the game want to do nothing more than ruin the game for others.

The only thing that is shared between the faction is the generation of resources. You could hop into a base completely dried of of power and still be able to easily pull whatever you want as long as YOU have resources. But if you are at a base that is dried of power, with you also having no resources, you'll find yourself regenerating them at a much slower rate than desired to the point where you won't be able to pull stuff easily from that base as it lacks the power to sufficiently keep your resource bar topped off (assuming you don't keep immediatly spawning and blowing all your resources in which case you'll still have to wait, just like you do now).
[/quote]
I hope your interpretation is correct that it is shared generation and not resources themselves. I'm still skeptical though. But if you are correct this could also prevent slipping by the lattice hacking terms and pulling out rear armor for a two way assault. Which means even less vehicular combat... To me at least.
[/quote]


I too hope this is correct.

Shared resources suck and are too easily exploited. Also I hope they add in an actual ANT type vehicle and not just a module onto the sundy.

[at0m]

I'd be down for it being a module on the sundy, but only if it also makes the sundy look like a Harvester. Especially since they mentioned harvesting crystals ;x

[[fr31ns]Karrde]

I'd be down for it being a module on the sundy, but only if it also makes the sundy look like a Harvester. Especially since they mentioned harvesting crystals ;x

[CaffeinePowered]

Karrde link=topic=7054.msg269824#msg269824 date=1374510870]
[quote author=at0m link=topic=7054.msg269823#msg269823 date=1374510580]
I'd be down for it being a module on the sundy, but only if it also makes the sundy look like a Harvester. Especially since they mentioned harvesting crystals ;x

[/quote]

[[fr31ns]Karrde]

yes but my pic was the original harvester from the first game XD

[KorJax]

[quote author=KorJax link=topic=7054.msg269779#msg269779 date=1374333648]
[quote author=Didzo link=topic=7054.msg269770#msg269770 date=1374302195]
If resources are unlimited at Warpgate, I can just see swarms of aircraft being the primary response unit to any base that's getting its shit boxed in.

Resources are not "unlimited" or "limited" at any location because resources are something you only spend yourself from your own pool on your own dime. Not sure why people read this and immediately think that suddenly the whole faction is sharing the same resource pool and everything is ruined because apparently the vast majority of players in the game want to do nothing more than ruin the game for others.

The only thing that is shared between the faction is the generation of resources. You could hop into a base completely dried of of power and still be able to easily pull whatever you want as long as YOU have resources. But if you are at a base that is dried of power, with you also having no resources, you'll find yourself regenerating them at a much slower rate than desired to the point where you won't be able to pull stuff easily from that base as it lacks the power to sufficiently keep your resource bar topped off (assuming you don't keep immediatly spawning and blowing all your resources in which case you'll still have to wait, just like you do now).
[/quote]
I hope your interpretation is correct that it is shared generation and not resources themselves. I'm still skeptical though. But if you are correct this could also prevent slipping by the lattice hacking terms and pulling out rear armor for a two way assault. Which means even less vehicular combat... To me at least.
[/quote]

The clarifications kardde posted means it should be correct unless they change it

You still have (and spend resources) from your personal resource pool, the difference being is that all assets you get share from a single pool vs tanks pulling from mechanical and etc, and resource generation is determined by the base you are at (and how much power it has) instead of via how much territory you own.

Also one neat thing to note is apparently territories cut off from the warpgate will not gain resources passively, which means you need to feed them via the "ANTs" (which is likely just going to be a module for sundys) if you want to maintain resource generation during battle. Apparently a base at 50% power will also give out resources at a 50% rate too, so its less "the base is completely out" and more like "we get 25% less resources per tick at 25% power" eventually it gradually gets close to zero (I wonder if it also loses resources at a 25% rate too).

[Didzo]

Having cargo gals would be cool.

[Goffin]

cargo gals?  oh,  you mean like the gals in PS1 to support the nanite cause?  gotcha.