Randomize Tank Spawn Plugin

[CaffeinePowered]

Since Valve has made the tank spawn at the same time for both teams, versus has seemed to have gotten too easy when you know exactly when the tank is coming. There's a plug-in out now that will randomize when the tank spawns, HOWEVER, and this is the key point here...it will NOT spawn a tank for one team and not the other.

If a team gets a tank the other will as well, if one team does not get a tank the other does not. so you won't have to worry about a team not getting a tank. I think this would make thing a little bit more fair when playing versus on the server.

If everyone is very against it, I won't put this on, so please post your thoughts/opinions.

[KarthXLR]

Um, I was actually happy when valve made the tank appear in the same place. Let's look at two scenarios
pre-same spawn:
Team A
                        Tank
Start<-------------|----Finish

Team B
               Tank
Start<------|------------Finish

With this, you can assume Team B will probably die soon after the tank and not make it as far as Team A did. One of my biggest frustrations before it was patched.

This is one plugin that's just no good.

[Versus]

There are other factors to take into account, i.e. molotov placement, if one team collects upgraded weapons before the tank and the other one doesn't, etc. It could be ok, but it would make it more fair if it took those factors into consideration.

[Badgerman of DOOM]

I like the fact that the tank spawns in the same place. It allows the teams ample time to prepare by looking around for molotovs, pipe bombs, and other commodities.

[Versus]

it allows the second team, not the first team. :-\

[KarthXLR]

it allows the second team, not the first team. :-\

Or vise versa.

[Dave]

[quote author=Versus-p- link=topic=2330.msg66608#msg66608 date=1234565876]
it allows the second team, not the first team. :-\

Or vise versa.
[/quote]

no?

[Versus]

"team" could refer to a team of survivors or a team of infected

[KarthXLR]

"team" could refer to a team of survivors or a team of infected

True. You could have a griefer for a tank

[jorge]

I wouldn't mind tanks being in the same place for both teams if the teams could alternate who gets to be survivors first. (Like ABBAABBA rather than ABABABABA.)

[CaffeinePowered]

I wouldn't mind tanks being in the same place for both teams if the teams could alternate who gets to be survivors first. (Like ABBAABBA rather than ABABABABA.)

As far as I know there's no way to do this, I was just suggesting it as a possible way to even things out, whoever plays survivors second can get a huge advantage (imo) by knowing where and when they are going to hit the tank.

[KarthXLR]

[quote author=jörge link=topic=2330.msg66641#msg66641 date=1234571932]
I wouldn't mind tanks being in the same place for both teams if the teams could alternate who gets to be survivors first. (Like ABBAABBA rather than ABABABABA.)

As far as I know there's no way to do this, I was just suggesting it as a possible way to even things out, whoever plays survivors second can get a huge advantage (imo) by knowing where and when they are going to hit the tank.
[/quote]
Better than getting a tank early on in a level when the others got a tank at the end.

[Wedge]

TBH it's not that big a deal, you can still usually hear the Tank coming a long ways away, the only difference is you might not have been looking for weapons or molotovs to deal with... but Tanks come up so often there's really no excuse for that.  A successful Tank attack now usually means properly coordinating it with the rest of the infected more than anything else.  The team switching thing would be nice if it could be done, but this problem isn't a better solution.  I'd rather it go back to be totally random and crazy, just because it was lulz. 

Also I always thought it'd be cool to have a variety of "really bad" thing that can happen to the survivors.  Like instead of a Tank showing up there are 3 Witches in the level, or the Infected get super-fast respawns.

[rumsfald]

non randomness completely defeats the purpose of the procedural difficulty "the director" was supposed to bring. what good is a horror game without surprises?

[Wedge]

non randomness completely defeats the purpose of the procedural difficulty "the director" was supposed to bring. what good is a horror game without surprises?

The problem is, it's no longer a "horror game" in versus mode, it's a competitive affair, and unless you're just screwing around the randomness makes it a very unbalanced one.  I do think there are ways to make it both balanced AND somewhat random, but that requires coming up with new and equally difficult ways to impede survivor's progress.

[rumsfald]

The problem is, with the valve's boneheaded decisions in match-making, lobbies, disincentives to host your own servers, limiting the server to 8 players, non-playable normal infected, non-player witches, etc... the prospect of versus mode being a truly competitive affair are broken out of the box. The only fun moments remaining in the game are the random moments, "where is the witch?" "boomer, right side" "smoker coming from behind," "TANK!"

Being the second team and being able to say "we're at the tractor trailer now, this is where we spawned the tank, get ready," runs counter to all of the other design choices in the game. The only real compromise would be to give the infected 1 tank spawn a level, and the power to time that spawn...but even that would soon de-volve into "what are you doing spawning the tank at the graveyard, asshole. Everyone knows you save the tank for the church siege."

L4D is at its best when it is a gussied-up co-op game. By design, it will never be a real game for competition.

[Honest]

The problem is, with the valve's boneheaded decisions in match-making, lobbies, disincentives to host your own servers, limiting the server to 8 players, non-playable normal infected, non-player witches, etc... the prospect of versus mode being a truly competitive affair are broken out of the box. The only fun moments remaining in the game are the random moments, "where is the witch?" "boomer, right side" "smoker coming from behind," "TANK!"

Being the second team and being able to say "we're at the tractor trailer now, this is where we spawned the tank, get ready," runs counter to all of the other design choices in the game. The only real compromise would be to give the infected 1 tank spawn a level, and the power to time that spawn...but even that would soon de-volve into "what are you doing spawning the tank at the graveyard, asshole. Everyone knows you save the tank for the church siege."

L4D is at its best when it is a gussied-up co-op game. By design, it will never be a real game for competition.

And yet there is still a L4D CAL league for God knows what reason.

[KorJax]

Who honestly purchased L4D and expected a competitive game out of it?

I expected to play a co-op focused game, which means inherently it doesn't require or really thrive on a competitive slant to things.  And that's exactly what I got.

I'm not sure if it's worth $50 for "just" 4 replayable campaigns (I dont consider each level in the campaigns a full map seeing as they are much smaller and more linear than your standard multiplayer maps).  However, luckily I bought it for about $25 thanks to some old unused best buy giftcards.

[ScottyGrayskull]

Being the second team and being able to say "we're at the tractor trailer now, this is where we spawned the tank, get ready," runs counter to all of the other design choices in the game.

YES! Thank you Caff and Rummy for saying this as well. I was starting to think I was all by myself on this. <3

Right now, whoever is survivor second gets a massive advantage. They now know when to expect the tank and witch (assuming the other team made it that far). I know it still boils down to teamwork, but even in versus there have been plenty of times where a team was surprised by a tank (well, before this "fix"). Everyone always mentions some time when they got a tank right out of spawn, but after thinking about it tonight it's easy enough to fix just by having a checkpoint that the tank won't appear before, then let it potentially appear at anytime after that (if it even does).

I am thinking more and more that versus is really cocking the game up, and Valve really should be focusing on the SDK and more ways to play co-op.

[ScottyGrayskull]

Who honestly purchased L4D and expected a competitive game out of it?

I expected to play a co-op focused game, which means inherently it doesn't require or really thrive on a competitive slant to things.  And that's exactly what I got.

Problem is nobody seems to want to play campaign anymore. I get told off for saying I'd rather play campaign.

If you prefer campaign, please keep me in mind next time you want to play? <3