Sniper Update Next + Update for all classes?

[Chief]

[quote author=Benito Mussolini link=topic=2612.msg74480#msg74480 date=1238860561]
[quote author=Dave link=topic=2612.msg74468#msg74468 date=1238855131]
[quote author=Wedge link=topic=2612.msg74464#msg74464 date=1238853224]
Quickscoping was never even supposed to be a part of the game, otherwise there wouldn't have been the massive charge timer for a full powered shot to begin with.  So the odds of a weapon coming out that has anything to do with that are none to zero.  The Sniper class in general has always been at odds with the playstyle the game presents anyways though I don't think that's something the update could or should try to rectify.

they could give the class some balls
[/quote]

With double jumps and a shotgun? Oh wait... you said balls... he needs a butterfly knife, then!
[/quote]
[/quote]

[Darklink]

Best option for valve is:

NEW RIFLE NAME

Shots Don't Charge
Headshots always 1HKO (maybe 260-300 damage (1hkos everything not overhealed and everything but Solly and Heavy if 260, and just heavy if 300)
No Laser Dot, sights similar those in CoD4
Holds max of 5 bullets in the barrel, 25 ammo total
Still bolt action
No Bodyshots

[cbre88x]

[quote author=cbre88x link=topic=2612.msg74371#msg74371 date=1238803194]
lawl at quikscoping. if you can't follow your prey then it isn't any fun to begin with.

Different strokes, etc. etc. I personally prefer the feeling of moving and finding random cover for a few seconds, seeing someone pop around a corner and then scoping, popping a headshot, then turning and doing the same thing to their buddy(ies) coming from the other direction(s), then finding some new temp cover. The stand & scope is just too boring of a playstyle for me, not to mention it's generally so much easier.
[/quote]

Trust me, if I could go prone and had a ghillie suit in the game I would. My style of sniping is about as real as it gets. I pick a spot until someone is able to take me out or it gets too hardcore. Then I go to another spot. Well, that's my defensive style anyways.

You guys also forget that quikscoping (for the n00bs) only really works when the sniper and his prey are on about the same level surface. 95% of the people who do this have no real skill whatsoever. It's kind of funny tho. Generally the 5% who are good at this style are on this server.

[Darklink]

[quote author=Blues link=topic=2612.msg74454#msg74454 date=1238846260]
[quote author=cbre88x link=topic=2612.msg74371#msg74371 date=1238803194]
lawl at quikscoping. if you can't follow your prey then it isn't any fun to begin with.

Different strokes, etc. etc. I personally prefer the feeling of moving and finding random cover for a few seconds, seeing someone pop around a corner and then scoping, popping a headshot, then turning and doing the same thing to their buddy(ies) coming from the other direction(s), then finding some new temp cover. The stand & scope is just too boring of a playstyle for me, not to mention it's generally so much easier.
[/quote]

Trust me, if I could go prone and had a ghillie suit in the game I would. My style of sniping is about as real as it gets. I pick a spot until someone is able to take me out or it gets too hardcore. Then I go to another spot. Well, that's my defensive style anyways.

You guys also forget that quikscoping (for the n00bs) only really works when the sniper and his prey are on about the same level surface. 95% of the people who do this have no real skill whatsoever. It's kind of funny tho. Generally the 5% who are good at this style are on this server.
[/quote]I'm pretty horrid at quickscoping because I pop the shot before my scope is all the way up  :-\.

[KarthXLR]

Best option for valve is:

NEW RIFLE NAME

Shots Don't Charge
Headshots always 1HKO (maybe 260-300 damage (1hkos everything not overhealed and everything but Solly and Heavy if 260, and just heavy if 300)
No Laser Dot, sights similar those in CoD4
Holds max of 5 bullets in the barrel, 25 ammo total
Still bolt action
No Bodyshots

That would be a terrible weapon

[Master Shake]

Somebody give this aussie some heat vision goggles.

[liquid108]

My sniper rifle idea:
The normal sniper rifle does 34-66 damage for an uncharged body shot (and a head shot does 3x). Every time you shoot it takes about 1 second to reload, and the sniper moves at about 27% while zoomed. (100% is his normal speed) Now for my idea. (another auto sniper ftw)

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn34-e.htm  <----(example of how it would look)
5 round mag and 4 extra mag for a total of 25 rounds. Body shots does 20-30 while head shots do 3x. .5 seconds to pop the cover off the lens cover and zoom in and .5 seconds delay after every shot and about a .25 seconds to fasten the lens cover again. Every time you shoot it has a slight recoil that doesn't recover by its own. (example: you head shot a heavy coming out the floor exits area on two fort and it recoils to the floor of the sniper bridge above. Then you have to move your mouse down again to shoot off another round.) Also instead of moving at 27% while zoomed, the sniper would move at about 45%.

Smg replacement idea:
I would really be happy what ever they replaced the smg with because I hardly ever use it. Something I would find useful though is like a stand up of a sniper that it would show in spawn and when ever the sniper would kill someone. It would zoom up on the stand up instead of the sniper, which would give away his hard reached position.

Kukri replacement idea:
I read this on the steam forms a while ago and it was one of the few idea I liked. (I modified it a bit too) The Kukri does 43-87 damage (with 195 crit) with a little bit more than one hit per second. Now the replacement would do 50-70 damage (with no crits) and would swing in a 3 quick swipes in secession that would take about 1.25 seconds total. However the disadvantage would be it would need a cool down for about 3 seconds before you could attack again.

Tell me what you think of them.     

[copulatingduck]

I'm pretty horrid at quickscoping because I pop the shot before my scope is all the way up  :-\.

twss

[Blues]

[quote author=Blues link=topic=2612.msg74454#msg74454 date=1238846260]
[quote author=cbre88x link=topic=2612.msg74371#msg74371 date=1238803194]
lawl at quikscoping. if you can't follow your prey then it isn't any fun to begin with.

Different strokes, etc. etc. I personally prefer the feeling of moving and finding random cover for a few seconds, seeing someone pop around a corner and then scoping, popping a headshot, then turning and doing the same thing to their buddy(ies) coming from the other direction(s), then finding some new temp cover. The stand & scope is just too boring of a playstyle for me, not to mention it's generally so much easier.
[/quote]

Trust me, if I could go prone and had a ghillie suit in the game I would. My style of sniping is about as real as it gets. I pick a spot until someone is able to take me out or it gets too hardcore. Then I go to another spot. Well, that's my defensive style anyways.

You guys also forget that quikscoping (for the n00bs) only really works when the sniper and his prey are on about the same level surface. 95% of the people who do this have no real skill whatsoever. It's kind of funny tho. Generally the 5% who are good at this style are on this server.
[/quote]
True enough, but at the same time, regular sniping doesn't work well for noobs anyways, as strafing a couple times will get you through untouched or with a single bodyshot 90% of the time. Surf I see what you're saying as well, and it COULD lead so some raging if a good sniper jumps in, but half the snipers in the game are terrible and probably wouldn't use it anyways.

I just feel like it would be a good replacement for snipers who want a bit more mobility without fucking up the class balance too bad, and it's hella better than an autosniper, which would ruin the balance of the game entirely unless they made it do like no headshot damage. This isn't counterstrike, classes don't have m4s to spray at the sniper to take him out quickly before he autosnipes at head level across a clearing and takes out 5 people.

[K2]

Why do almost all of these ideas involve weakening/taking away bodyshots? Valve has stated multiple times that they don't want the unlockables to make it easier for skilled players to kick ass while leaving mediocre players behind. There is no way they would ever make a rifle that only rewards people who can consistently quickscope or headshot.

I'm thinking a likely replacement would be semi-auto but be weaker and/or take a long time to reload the clip.

[copulatingduck]

Valve has stated multiple times that they don't want the unlockables to make it easier for skilled players to kick ass while leaving mediocre players behind. There is no way they would ever make a rifle that only rewards people who can consistently quickscope or headshot.

I'm thinking a likely replacement would be semi-auto but be weaker and/or take a long time to reload the clip.

Iirc they only said that for the scout class, never said anything about empowering bad players while gimping good players for the pyro, heavy, or medic updates.

Also, a semi-auto rifle that's slightly weaker would almost certainly empower good players while weakening bad players, dunno why you would think it's the other way around. I don't know what they can do for the sniper beyond reversing the dmg/time-in-scope curve (I'm all for this actually), but a semi-auto (assuming they keep headshots) would be "broken" in the hands of a good player.

Imho there isn't anything more Valve needs to do to make sniper a decent class for bad players, he already has the ability to do 205dmg with a fully-charged bodyshot, no other class in the game even comes close to touching that kind of burst damage without a crit.

[Radio Raheem]

fully charged bodyshots are incredibly retarded and should do half of what they do now. the only rifle that makes any sense to me is no charge for headshot does 250+ instantly and much lower damage to the body. like maybe 50 damage bodyshot

[Surf314]

The thing I would want would be something made for no-scoping.  It would have to be weaker to counteract the advantages but this would make sniper a class for me.

[JoKeRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR]

If the sniper gets a pistol to replace the SMG i will be happy with the update

[cbre88x]

If the sniper gets a DE .50 to replace the SMG i will be happy with the update

fixed

[Blues]

[quote author=K2 link=topic=2612.msg74575#msg74575 date=1238880534]
Valve has stated multiple times that they don't want the unlockables to make it easier for skilled players to kick ass while leaving mediocre players behind. There is no way they would ever make a rifle that only rewards people who can consistently quickscope or headshot.

I'm thinking a likely replacement would be semi-auto but be weaker and/or take a long time to reload the clip.

Iirc they only said that for the scout class, never said anything about empowering bad players while gimping good players for the pyro, heavy, or medic updates.

Also, a semi-auto rifle that's slightly weaker would almost certainly empower good players while weakening bad players, dunno why you would think it's the other way around. I don't know what they can do for the sniper beyond reversing the dmg/time-in-scope curve (I'm all for this actually), but a semi-auto (assuming they keep headshots) would be "broken" in the hands of a good player.
Imho there isn't anything more Valve needs to do to make sniper a decent class for bad players, he already has the ability to do 205dmg with a fully-charged bodyshot, no other class in the game even comes close to touching that kind of burst damage without a crit.
[/quote]

Not even just good players. Ever played Counterstrike or Call of Duty? An auto sniper takes no skill and would be completely unfitting of the TF2 playstyle unless there were 0 headshots.

Unfortunately, an autosniper seems to be the biggest call from players, due to no real alternatives being easy to think up for a sniper rifle without including more stupid ass movement restriction ideas. LOLOLOLOLOL TRANQUILIZER DARTS GAIS

[ZargonX]

I think we can all agree that laser sights are old hat; laser rifles are where it's at.

[Geoff]

the sniper needs an instagib railgun, will totally fix all balance issues

[Squishy3]

I think we can all agree that laser sights are old hat; laser rifles are where it's at.

fuck that, I have a wazer wifle

[ribozyme]

I heard this as an idea and thought it sounded interesting:

New rifle can tag players.  Basically if the sniper hits an enemy it allows your entire team to see a white outline of the character through walls so you can see the class and relative position.  This effect wears of after a certain amount of time (maybe 10-30 seconds, just see how it balances out).  The tradeoff is the rifle can't charge meaning you can only do base damage body shots and base damage head shots.  This gives the sniper a more involved roll in the team which as always been his main problem imo.

Also the melee will be a boomerang :3

EDIT: I've also heard a similar tagging idea as an unlock for the spy (lolol sapping people).  I think it would be an interesting mechanic either way.