Be Right Back, Uninstalling

This morning my inbox was greeted with a genuine SHITSTORM on the HLDS mailing list. Valve sent out an emailer about how left4dead servers are going to be run and quite frankly, no one likes it, at all. Comments rage from a polite disagreement to absolute rage and talks of canceling pre-orders.

Valve's response thus far has been somewhat good...stating that they'll 'read and look into the complaints'. If theres no server browser, I'm not picking this up.

I read this too. Chances are if no one likes it they will fix it, Im still going to be rocking the demo as seen as its released.

Rage, even though I still say Right click > Join game in steam/xfire isn't that hard.

But still, rage.

(11-06-2008, 07:37 AM)Honest link Wrote: [ -> ]Rage, even though I still say Right click > Join game in steam/xfire isn't that hard.

Well that and steam work all fine and dandy, HOWEVER, the problem lies in that the people that spend money, time, and effort to run dedicated servers like to build a community around them (ie this site and others like it). People add a server to their favorites, keep coming back, and a community forms around it.

No server browser means no favorites, no favorites means no reason to put in mods, custom maps, or cater to a certain type of player.

And that overall means the game will be less enjoyable and have a shorter lifespan since  you can't grow any community support. I play PC games for the freedom they offer me in both 3rd party modifications and a better choice of who I play with, something not afforded to xbox gamers.

Haha, this game is cruisin' for the bargain bin fast.

Would this also make it hard to get in a game with friends?  Or you people?  :-*

(11-06-2008, 08:31 AM)Surf314 link Wrote: [ -> ]Would this also make it hard to get in a game with friends?  Or you people?   :-*

Y'mean we're not your friends? :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Scathing email Im sending over HLDS

As someone who runs a TF2 community with 3 servers, both I and many members of my community are extremely disappointed with this. Having no server browser is going to kill any sense of community with this game right out of the gate, which will in turn kill user generated server modification and custom maps, and ultimately shorten the lifespan of the game.

Being able to "join friends" is not an acceptable substitute. When you run a server, however large or small, it starts to get regulars and over time those regulars turn into members of a community. We as server operators also tailor our server to cater to certain players, whether they be players that like custom maps, various modifications made to game play, or just a general atmosphere.

What is my motivation as an operator to run a dedicated server if I can't garner a community out of it, what is my motivation as a mapper to make custom content if I am unsure if there are any servers that are dedicated to hosting my content, and what is my long term motivation as a player to continue playing a game without a community to join?

I play PC games because I want the freedom to choose with whom I play with, what server I play on, and if I want to use custom content. We are not XBL and we do not want a game set up as such. I was excited for this game and ready to set up a server or two for the community that has grown around my TF2 servers, however with this announcement, I don't think that's going to be case.

Valve, please dont leave the communities 4 dead (pun intended)

- Caffeine

Quote:Would this also make it hard to get in a game with friends?  Or you people?

No, but it kills any opportunity at a community, Join a Server -> Like it, add to favorites -> Continue playing -> become member of community

Left4Dead's Model

Join Random Server -> Enjoy -> Oh wait, no browser means no favorites -> No community since you can't "repeat" where you went to, even if they had that awesome server mod, or ran all customs, or just had "good people"

(11-06-2008, 08:32 AM)CopulatingDuck link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Surf314 link=topic=1720.msg48051#msg48051 date=1225978280]
Would this also make it hard to get in a game with friends?  Or you people?   :-*

Y'mean we're not your friends? :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
[/quote]

I'm still a little shocked that they would not include the server browser.

(11-06-2008, 08:33 AM)CaffeinePowered link Wrote: [ -> ]with whom I play with

With.

That pun'll show 'em you're cereal 

is this game developer by microsoft studios or something?

(11-06-2008, 08:47 AM)Arnies Right Bicep link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1720.msg48053#msg48053 date=1225978395]
with whom I play with

With.

That pun'll show 'em you're cereal 
[/quote]

well...you want to see a more angry,  yet polite email...
From the emailer:

> Following the announcement last night that there will be no
> server browser for the highly anticipated Left 4 Dead, we
> have been thinking long and hard about the impact this has
> on the hosting of the game.
>
> With no server browser how are people supposed to join a
> server they have rented?  Will there at least be a direct
> to join IP feature?
>
> Without these there is no incentive for either the purchase
> of servers by customers or the provision of free-to-play
> publics by gaming communities, as people have no choice over
> what server they join.
>
> This kills the rental, hosting and community market for the
> game outright. Do Valve really intend to host all the servers
> themselves for the game or has the importance of these features
> and their impact been overlooked?
>
> As it stands right now we (Multiplay) see no benefit in
> supporting this game at all and unless this situation changes
> we do not intend to host any servers for it.
>
> We hope other GSP's will support us in this action. The MOTD
> ad block is of minor significance in comparison to the building
> a community around servers. This is the start of a slippery
> slope which once started down it will be hard to turn back.
> The community goodwill and hard work must not be taken for
> granted and pushed too far.
>
> Valve's success is in no small part due to the widespread
> availability of servers for it's games, the majority of which
> are funded and run by the community at large. To take away the
> community's ability to continue to run servers that they can
> build solid regular player bases around, will simply destroy
> the communities around the game and also significantly dent
> faith and goodwill in Valve as a company.
>
> While we wish Valve success with this game; their decision
> leaves us with no choice but to take this action in the hope
> that it will highlight how strongly we feel about the removal
> of direct join options from any game.
>
>    Regards
>    Steve
>

(11-06-2008, 08:51 AM)CaffeinePowered link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Arnie's Right Bicep link=topic=1720.msg48059#msg48059 date=1225979221]
[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1720.msg48053#msg48053 date=1225978395]
with whom I play with

With.
That pun'll show 'em you're cereal 
[/quote]
well...you want to see a more angry,  yet polite email...
From the emailer:
> Following the announcement last night that there will be no
> server browser for the highly anticipated Left 4 Dead, we
> have been thinking long and hard about the impact this has
> on the hosting of the game.
>
> With no server browser how are people supposed to join a
> server they have rented?  Will there at least be a direct
> to join IP feature?
>
> Without these there is no incentive for either the purchase
> of servers by customers or the provision of free-to-play
> publics by gaming communities, as people have no choice over
> what server they join.
>
> This kills the rental, hosting and community market for the
> game outright. Do Valve really intend to host all the servers
> themselves for the game or has the importance of these features
> and their impact been overlooked?
>
> As it stands right now we (Multiplay) see no benefit in
> supporting this game at all and unless this situation changes
> we do not intend to host any servers for it.
>
> We hope other GSP's will support us in this action. The MOTD
> ad block is of minor significance in comparison to the building
> a community around servers. This is the start of a slippery
> slope which once started down it will be hard to turn back.
> The community goodwill and hard work must not be taken for
> granted and pushed too far.
>
> Valve's success is in no small part due to the widespread
> availability of servers for it's games, the majority of which
> are funded and run by the community at large. To take away the
> community's ability to continue to run servers that they can
> build solid regular player bases around, will simply destroy
> the communities around the game and also significantly dent
> faith and goodwill in Valve as a company.
>
> While we wish Valve success with this game; their decision
> leaves us with no choice but to take this action in the hope
> that it will highlight how strongly we feel about the removal
> of direct join options from any game.
>
>    Regards
>    Steve
>
[/quote]

*claps*

(11-06-2008, 08:55 AM)cbre88x link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1720.msg48062#msg48062 date=1225979500]
[quote author=Arnie's Right Bicep link=topic=1720.msg48059#msg48059 date=1225979221]
[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1720.msg48053#msg48053 date=1225978395]
with whom I play with

With.
That pun'll show 'em you're cereal 
[/quote]
well...you want to see a more angry,  yet polite email...
From the emailer:
> *anger*
[/quote]

*claps*
[/quote]

Damn. Multiplay be pretty big, no? I see a shitload of their servers on the TF2 list.

(11-06-2008, 09:04 AM)Arnies Right Bicep link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=cbre88x link=topic=1720.msg48065#msg48065 date=1225979729]
[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1720.msg48062#msg48062 date=1225979500]
[quote author=Arnie's Right Bicep link=topic=1720.msg48059#msg48059 date=1225979221]
[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1720.msg48053#msg48053 date=1225978395]
with whom I play with

With.
That pun'll show 'em you're cereal 
[/quote]
well...you want to see a more angry,  yet polite email...
From the emailer:
> *anger*
[/quote]

*claps*
[/quote]

Damn. Multiplay be pretty big, no? I see a shitload of their servers on the TF2 list.
[/quote]

l4d I see as pretty much being co-op or versus multiplayer ONLY, there's no reason to play with bots/AI, that would just be boring as shit. If more hosting companies follow suit and form a unified front against Valve the game will be dead-on-arrival with only the handfull that valve is hosting running and likely lots of 'unable to find game' messages.

I was really expecting them to implement a decent way for players to host their own games at this point, though I guess you really can't get around the average joe not knowing the first thing about port forwarding. :-\

(11-06-2008, 09:21 AM)CopulatingDuck link Wrote: [ -> ]I was really expecting them to implement a decent way for players to host their own games at this point, though I guess you really can't get around the average joe not knowing the first thing about port forwarding. :-\

Well not just that, but it would take too much CPU/Bandwidth to run it for most people, even 4 people, you can sort of do it off a home connection with TF2, but like you said earlier the server is much more resource intense than a TF2 server.

more anger...and burns

This is exactly how I see it.

Right now I'm ready to set up 8 L4D servers and my (pretty small)
community has at least 20 people with the game pre-ordered,  If there's
no sensible way to play on our own servers with our friends, there'll be
a lot of pre-orders canceled, and my servers will go to games that will
work for the community.  such as CoD:WaW, and other co-op favourites.

Thomas Morton wrote:
> Olly,
>
> Valve have posted the info to this to the list SPECIFICALLY. It is a huge
> change to the way the game works...
>
> We can only go on the info that has been given and that is that there will
> be no server browser.
>
> The new system that has been described means I doubt clans will bother to
> host servers because the chances of EVER getting to play on a server they
> are paying for is next to minimal!!
>
> As to "I cant understand why everyone is so eager to slap valve for making a
> decision that we haven't even seen the result of?" - the earlier people
> start to explain that this is a BAD move (or rather start to raise concerns)
> to Valve the sooner they can look into fixing it. Should we wait another day
> or so when there might be no chance of fixing things for the full release.
>
> We are raising concerns with an announcement THEY made - now it is surely
> (fairly) Valve's turn to respond to our concerns - either by saying "yes
> that's how it is.." or explaining where we are misinterpreting things. Why
> else would thay have posted it??
>
> The way I see it this will easily kill the PC version of the game: no one
> will really want to host servers they never play on... so there will be no
> servers..... joy!
>
> Thomas Morton

I'm sure they have their reasons for this, but they better make it optional.

(11-06-2008, 12:02 PM)Eschatos link Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sure they have their reasons for this, but they better make it optional.

They are beginning to put emphasis on the consoles more than the PC. This is a bad sign.