Be Right Back, Uninstalling

So yea.. there were these two guys who had spammed on the mics on CC's server, one was banned for it, so the other came to SakeFox on AIM, this was the convo that followed.

Quote:Conversation with lusipurr at 7/13/2008 10:38:03 PM on dragonnight01 (aim)
(10:38:03 PM) Lusipurr: Excuse me, you're SakeFox on the CC2 forums, right? I have a quick question for you.
(10:38:14 PM) dragonnight01: yes i am
(10:38:31 PM) Lusipurr: My friend was banned and you posted a reply saying that sounds of any sort are not allowed, per the rules.
(10:38:57 PM) Lusipurr: But the game info. page where the rules are posted just says 'No microphone/music spamming'.
(10:39:12 PM) Lusipurr: So I'm curious how we are supposed to extrapolate 'no sounds at all' from that.
(10:39:48 PM) Lusipurr: We are both happy to follow the rules, but I think it's pretty unfair to punish people for breaking rules that aren't posted clearly.
(10:39:55 PM) dragonnight01: playing sounds is counted under the microphone spam.
(10:40:08 PM) Lusipurr: So playing a sound once in a match constitutes as spam.
(10:40:25 PM) Lusipurr: Regardless of the duration or nature of the sound, naturally.
(10:40:43 PM) Lusipurr: That's a very unusual definition of 'spam', at least in regard to the way the word is normally used.
(10:41:56 PM) Lusipurr: Don't you think your rules might be just a little bit vague?
(10:42:01 PM) dragonnight01: all i can talk about is the rules...i can not discuss any matter of the ban
(10:42:11 PM) Lusipurr: Okay, well I am asking you about your rules.
(10:42:30 PM) Lusipurr: The rules say spamming.
(10:42:42 PM) Lusipurr: You are saying that 'any sound, played any number of times' constitutes spamming.
(10:42:49 PM) Lusipurr: Well, to my mind that isn't the case.
(10:43:08 PM) Lusipurr: I think most people probably think spamming means repeatedly playing a sound of being obnoxious with the microphone.
(10:43:21 PM) Lusipurr: That is what spamming normally means with regard to things like chat spam, e-mail spam, &c.
(10:43:53 PM) Lusipurr: So my question to you is very simple: do you think it is all right to punish people for breaking a rule so vaguely stated?
(10:43:54 PM) dragonnight01: the diffinition of spam can differ from one to another
(10:43:58 PM) Lusipurr: Indeed it can
(10:44:01 PM) Lusipurr: That is entirely the point.
(10:44:09 PM) Lusipurr: You have not defined what it is on your game info page.
(10:44:17 PM) Lusipurr: You simply state 'spamming' which is quite vague.
(10:44:39 PM) Lusipurr: My friends and I are HAPPY to follow the rules.
(10:44:45 PM) Lusipurr: We were not aware we were breaking any rules.
(10:44:59 PM) Lusipurr: To punish people who don't even know they are doing something wrong is more than a little draconian.
(10:45:15 PM) Lusipurr: I have not been banned, but by this definition of spamming I might well have been.
(10:45:18 PM) dragonnight01: well i know you guys were warned for spamming eailer
(10:45:25 PM) Lusipurr: Yes, we were warned for spamming.
(10:45:31 PM) dragonnight01: a few days ago for sounds
(10:45:31 PM) Lusipurr: We did not think we WERE spamming.
(10:45:39 PM) Lusipurr: We both played a sound file once and were told not to 'spam'
(10:46:00 PM) Lusipurr: We assumed the guy was a bit overeager to warn people, because to both of us playing a file once isn't spamming
(10:46:05 PM) Lusipurr: He never said "no sounds allowed"
(10:46:17 PM) Lusipurr: If he had done, we would not have used them again from that point onward.
(10:46:47 PM) Lusipurr: Again, the point at issue for us is that the game rules state no spamming, but do not clarify this, and your admin did not clarify this either.
(10:46:56 PM) Lusipurr: He just restated the vague rule
(10:47:19 PM) Lusipurr: He did not say something like, oh, I don't know, "Any sounds on this server constitute spam."
(10:47:22 PM) Lusipurr: Which would have been ideal.
(10:47:38 PM) dragonnight01: the mic is for voice not sounds or music
(10:47:54 PM) Lusipurr: Where is that stated on the game info. page?
(10:48:05 PM) Lusipurr: How are people supposed to know things you don't define or state?
(10:49:21 PM) dragonnight01: it is a voice channel, not a sound/music issue...for any further complaints feel free to contact CC about the rules
(10:49:45 PM) Lusipurr: That would be perfectly reasonable if such use of the 'voice' channel for sounds and music were not entirely common.
(10:50:04 PM) Lusipurr: But it is, and it has been, and therefore you guys need to state clearly what is expected of players.
(10:50:10 PM) Lusipurr: Not ban them and then tell them why later on.
(10:50:33 PM) Lusipurr: "Oh, by the way, the rules means this, come back tomorrow." is not the right way to administrate anything.
(10:50:49 PM) Lusipurr: But hey, it's allright, I appreciate your time.
(10:50:55 PM) Lusipurr: Speaking with you has been a very eye-opening experience.
(10:52:39 PM) Lusipurr: And we won't be breaking any more rules again, I promise.
(10:54:16 PM) dragonnight01: the reason the rules seem to be vague with people insted of spelled out to every detail is for one we dont have to time to write a page that is nine pages long nor would people want to read it, the other reason is so that we dont have to worry about loop holes and start nagging on that issue
(10:55:18 PM) Lusipurr: Well, personally, I think substituting "No Sounds, No Music, No Microphone Spam" for what you have now would solve the problem without making your game info. page any longer than it is.
(10:55:26 PM) Lusipurr: That's a suggestion, if you like.
(10:55:56 PM) Lusipurr: For our part, we're just going to play somewhere else. But, if you do this maybe you can prevent it happening to someone else down the road.
(10:56:02 PM) Lusipurr: I am, of course, presuming you actually care.
(10:56:04 PM) Lusipurr: You probably don't.
(10:56:07 PM) Lusipurr: Anyway, have a nice night.
(10:57:52 PM) Lusipurr: OH! there is ONE MORE THING, I forgot to mention.
(10:58:08 PM) Lusipurr: Please tune into RPGamer's podcast next week. You're going to be mentioned.
(10:58:10 PM) Lusipurr: Pip pip!
(11:03:04 PM) dragonnight01: no offence, but if you already come at me with the attitude that i don't care then what is the point of me trying to talk about the issue. If you already have your mind set then there is nothing to go on from.
(11:03:18 PM) Lusipurr: Oh, I did care.
(11:03:22 PM) Lusipurr: Until you made it clear that you don't.
(11:03:41 PM) dragonnight01: to be fair i never once made mention that i didnt care about the issue
(11:04:05 PM) Lusipurr: Correct, you made it clear you do not care in a much more elongated, complex way
(11:04:24 PM) Lusipurr: Mostly by saying, "Yes, the rules are vague; yes people might understand them to mean different things; that's too bad."
(11:04:50 PM) dragonnight01: now that is putting words in there that was never said
(11:06:40 PM) dragonnight01: all i had said was about the reasoning on way some of the rules seem vague to people.
(11:07:04 PM) dragonnight01: I'm more then sure that you comment about the podcast will be on about bashing us and if so i would like to atleast have the correct information in it
(11:12:14 PM) Lusipurr: I appreciate you trying to cover your bases now, but my friend and I have already agreed that we will just play elsewhere from now on.
(11:12:28 PM) dragonnight01: well i am not trying to cover my bases
(11:12:30 PM) Lusipurr: You had your chance to care when I presented the logical reasons why your rules could stand clarification.
(11:13:16 PM) Lusipurr: I have now done you a nice favour by suggesting how to fix this in the future.
(11:13:23 PM) Lusipurr: It is similar to what I did for Microsoft about their DRM issue.
(11:13:27 PM) Lusipurr: Because I am a NICE GUY you see.
(11:13:28 PM) dragonnight01: well i never said that i didnt care, you just kinda jumped to the conclusion that i didnt care
(11:13:38 PM) Lusipurr: Well, tell me how you expressed your concern.
(11:13:43 PM) Lusipurr: I seem to have misunderstood you.
(11:13:50 PM) Lusipurr: The rules are vague, you admit this.
(11:14:00 PM) Lusipurr: They are vague because you don't want to spell things out. Okay, I get that.
(11:14:09 PM) Lusipurr: But people are punished for not understanding because of this.
(11:14:17 PM) Lusipurr: Will there be action taken to fix it? No.
(11:14:24 PM) Lusipurr: Is there an easy way to fix it? Yes.
(11:14:42 PM) Lusipurr: Now you see, to my simple-mind, that seems to be tantamount to you saying, "this is how it is, that is just too bad."
(11:14:51 PM) Lusipurr: But I'll let our listeners decide.
(11:15:20 PM) Lusipurr: I always like to hear the vox populi.
(11:15:35 PM) Lusipurr: Now, I am TRYING to defend the last capture point on Dustbowl over on our new playspace.
(11:15:43 PM) Lusipurr: I wish you the very best of evenings.
(11:16:18 PM) dragonnight01: on all of this you are just jumping to conclusions, you are constently putting words in about people that never said, but since you want to be off you have a good evening also.
(11:16:46 PM) Lusipurr: IT will be. For one thing, the people I am playing with won't get banned for breaking vague rules they don't understand, and that is an excellent way to begin with.
(11:16:49 PM) Lusipurr: Pip pip!

He is a cunt, and for my own amusement I plan on tracking him down and annoying him. I already have him added to my friends list. Comments on this retard? xD Also, best fucking picture evar!



EDIT: This is a link to their Pod Casts... they don't have the new one up yet.. but Im sure its coming. 
http://www.rpgamer.com/rpgcast/rpgcast_archive.html

lol why does he care if his friend was banned, I mean does he really love playing at CC2iscool? or else he wouldnt take up such an issue.
and yea that guy seems like a complete asshole.

damn furries.

Why would you say 'its going to be mentioned on this obscure podcast that isnt even about TF2 or FPS games at all, see we're gonna bash your server there, what are you gonna do about it?'


lol

Well, tbh I agreed with most of what he said regarding the "you're [SakeFox] being intentionally vague, and have effectively told me 'too bad.' " Granted, he could just have been trolling for an argument by asking for rules clarifications, but he did ask for one, and as an admin, you owe someone that much if they haven't done something egregious.

That said, this is why I think our chalkboard's for the servers are great: they make the rules perfectly clear without sounding "draconian."

Quote:* No Mic Spam - defined as annoying looping sounds, loud bad music, or continuing after asked to stop
* No asshattery or drama causing
* Homophobic/Racist/Hate sprays or language is not tolerated
* If you would like a reserved slot please check our forums
* Any violators can be kicked/banned

Seems to sum it up very nicely without causing a problem.

Theres no way that -CAN'T- be Anon, IT follows it's logic, and manner. To be a complete ASS talking in the nicest tone possible. WE HAVE SEEN this sort of thing before, Remeber Joel?

RPGamer huh?  Shit that fuckers been around since 1995 or something.  And still looks the same.  I actually have a review on the site, though you'll be damned if I tell you for what, since it's godawful and written when I was a 15.

15 is always a bad age.

(07-14-2008, 01:01 AM)Wedge link Wrote: [ -> ]RPGamer huh?  Shit that fuckers been around since 1995 or something.  And still looks the same.  I actually have a review on the site, though you'll be damned if I tell you for what, since it's godawful and written when I was a 15.

You mean this one right, Wedge?

I gotta say, the cunt is definitely the more articulate of the two. You know those boxing movies where it's this big, slow Russian guy against a nimble little Mohammed-Ali-esque spitfire? Conversationally speaking, that was it.

(07-14-2008, 02:19 AM)timepants link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Wedge link=topic=830.msg21282#msg21282 date=1216015295]
RPGamer huh?  Shit that fuckers been around since 1995 or something.  And still looks the same.  I actually have a review on the site, though you'll be damned if I tell you for what, since it's godawful and written when I was a 15.

You mean this one right, Wedge?
[/quote]

lol. what a douche you can be Mr ET

At least he wasn't payed to review it that well. OR WAS HE?

Wedge, how much in ad revenue did you make with that review? A boat? A mansion? 25cent machine tattoo?

what a total douche fag, you cant argue that playing even one shitty sound isnt spam, spam is any kind of shittty media, not just repeated shit, by his assreptillian logic, playing the sound of a kitten gettign stomped on, just once, would not be a kickable offense

he can eat my shit.

In all honesty, until reading everyone's replies to this, I had assumed Joel was referring to the admin as an utter cunt, the other guy seemed entirely in the right IMO. Making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill but on the side of right, nonetheless.

I take it you're "dragonnight01"?

Sounds to me like he at first came to you with a legitimate issue. One warning and then a ban without really listening to an appeal over what is a vague rule seems a little heavy handed.

Of course he did start talking like a condescending douche after a bit... which never helps things.  :-\

(07-14-2008, 08:46 AM)ScottyGrayskull link Wrote: [ -> ]I take it you're "dragonnight01"?

Sounds to me like he at first came to you with a legitimate issue. One warning and then a ban without really listening to an appeal over what is a vague rule seems a little heavy handed.

Of course he did start talking like a condescending douche after a bit... which never helps things.  :-\

CC2, being a set of servers thats full almost 24/7 (at least #1) has to deal with a lot more admin issues, and being that its all furries, that attracts trolls, so I'm not surprised that anyone with admin there wouldn't be heavy handed and just bitch slap anyone that gives them any lip.

we get fucks like this at work, if it was up to me we would be using the fist to face approach, but we just have to accept shit.

(07-14-2008, 07:27 AM)Budr link Wrote: [ -> ]In all honesty, until reading everyone's replies to this, I had assumed Joel was referring to the admin as an utter cunt, the other guy seemed entirely in the right IMO. Making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill but on the side of right, nonetheless.

Sounds like something I would do. 

The guy's vocabulary skills and word choice made me laugh, because it made him seem polite. xD

I got banned from CC2iscool for doing the Civilian Heavy glitch.

I think I remember hearing Sakefox warning me to stop, to which I replied "and where's the fun in that?", not knowing or realising that he was an admin.

Needless to say, I was promptly banned. /facepalm

I didn't bother to try and protest the ban, because I could see how I could be in the wrong for glitching, but at the same time, I wasn't exactly ruining the game, either.

well joel i showed. so you can quit complaining to me =P

I am sakefox or dragonnight01 in the message, however you want to look at it.

If you look at the timestamps the guy would just never stop typing. I don't have a problem talking about the issues or explaining them, but I have to wait till he's finish with his "point" before i respond so that I have all of his issues before i make a comment. However once he just kept going on and on then starts assuming and putting words in that were never said i just basicly said screw it. If you have your mind maid up there is no point in even trying. I try to make one last ditch effort to try to start something to see if it would start a decent chat but gave up when he started making stuff up again. oh well...it's free advertising.

i seen someone say that we probably have a lot of admin abuse. to be honest its extremely far and few in between. Admins have a strict rule set to follow and any abuse is a very quick ban while the issue is under review. That and we don't give them commands that would be abusive.