Be Right Back, Uninstalling

http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNe...ers_120611

I really have no problem with this.

HONEY! I'm going to need to borrow 40 loonies...

(06-11-2012, 07:50 PM)LT Crow link Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNe...ers_120611

I really have no problem with this.

What constitues an unlawful entry? Who decides it's unlawful?

(06-11-2012, 08:39 PM)Azure_Angel link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247163#msg247163 date=1339462255]
http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNe...ers_120611

I really have no problem with this.

What constitues an unlawful entry? Who decides it's unlawful?
[/quote]

Busting down the door without probable cause and no warrant. Having a warrant on 123 Main Street but actually raiding 124 Main Street.

This was a response to an Indiana Judge who said citizens have no recourse if police entered a house unlawfully.

(06-11-2012, 09:20 PM)Dtrain323i link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247166#msg247166 date=1339465162]
[quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247163#msg247163 date=1339462255]
http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNe...ers_120611

I really have no problem with this.

What constitues an unlawful entry? Who decides it's unlawful?
[/quote]

Busting down the door without probable cause and no warrant. Having a warrant on 123 Main Street but actually raiding 124 Main Street.

This was a response to an Indian Judge who said citizens have no recourse if police entered a house unlawfully.
[/quote]

Fuck the police.

Also, Indiana is home to Gary. We'll see how long this stays afloat. And if it works, good on em, I support it.

(06-11-2012, 09:20 PM)Dtrain323i link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247166#msg247166 date=1339465162]
[quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247163#msg247163 date=1339462255]
http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNe...ers_120611

I really have no problem with this.

What constitues an unlawful entry? Who decides it's unlawful?
[/quote]

Busting down the door without probable cause and no warrant. Having a warrant on 123 Main Street but actually raiding 124 Main Street.

This was a response to an Indiana Judge who said citizens have no recourse if police entered a house unlawfully.
[/quote]

Ok but let's say I'm some backwoods redneck who shoots first and asks questions later. 2 officers could be dead cause of a wrong address, which is a super easy mistake.

(06-11-2012, 10:04 PM)Azure_Angel link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Dtrain323i link=topic=2632.msg247168#msg247168 date=1339467636]
[quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247166#msg247166 date=1339465162]
[quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247163#msg247163 date=1339462255]
http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNe...ers_120611

I really have no problem with this.

What constitues an unlawful entry? Who decides it's unlawful?
[/quote]

Busting down the door without probable cause and no warrant. Having a warrant on 123 Main Street but actually raiding 124 Main Street.

This was a response to an Indiana Judge who said citizens have no recourse if police entered a house unlawfully.
[/quote]

Ok but let's say I'm some backwoods redneck who shoots first and asks questions later. 2 officers could be dead cause of a wrong address, which is a super easy mistake.
[/quote]

Well, that should mean the cops should be making doubly sure that they have the address correct. And in the days of Google maps and GPS, getting the house number right should be trivial.

I'll put it to you this way. I'm a law-abiding citizen and a gun owner. If I'm in bed at 3am and hear my door getting knocked down, I'm grabbing my rifle and shooting at whoever comes through it. I have no reason to expect police to come into my home. ESPECIALLY when there are cases of criminals posing as police officers in order to break into homes. Just go to Galls.com, you can buy everything you need to impersonate a police officer. You can even buy body armor.

(06-11-2012, 10:04 PM)Azure_Angel link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Dtrain323i link=topic=2632.msg247168#msg247168 date=1339467636]
[quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247166#msg247166 date=1339465162]
[quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247163#msg247163 date=1339462255]
http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNe...ers_120611

I really have no problem with this.

What constitues an unlawful entry? Who decides it's unlawful?
[/quote]

Busting down the door without probable cause and no warrant. Having a warrant on 123 Main Street but actually raiding 124 Main Street.

This was a response to an Indiana Judge who said citizens have no recourse if police entered a house unlawfully.
[/quote]

Ok but let's say I'm some backwoods redneck who shoots first and asks questions later. 2 officers could be dead cause of a wrong address, which is a super easy mistake.
[/quote]

No.  If you've ever kicked in a door, it's your job to make sure IT'S NOT A FUCKING MISTAKE.  Why?  Because you're ready to KILL everyone on the other side of that door if you need to.  If you're going to end someone and everyone with them, you fucking take that tactical pause to make sure you're hitting the right goddamned spot.  

EDIT: Dtrain, you know, I live < .5 miles away from the Galls HQ.  Also with you all the way, if you're through my door, you're shot. 

Brb, changing all the numbers on all houses on my block to the same.

(06-11-2012, 10:25 PM)LT Crow link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247172#msg247172 date=1339470247]
[quote author=Dtrain323i link=topic=2632.msg247168#msg247168 date=1339467636]
[quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247166#msg247166 date=1339465162]
[quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247163#msg247163 date=1339462255]
http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNe...ers_120611

I really have no problem with this.

What constitues an unlawful entry? Who decides it's unlawful?
[/quote]

Busting down the door without probable cause and no warrant. Having a warrant on 123 Main Street but actually raiding 124 Main Street.

This was a response to an Indiana Judge who said citizens have no recourse if police entered a house unlawfully.
[/quote]

Ok but let's say I'm some backwoods redneck who shoots first and asks questions later. 2 officers could be dead cause of a wrong address, which is a super easy mistake.
[/quote]

No.  If you've ever kicked in a door, it's your job to make sure IT'S NOT A FUCKING MISTAKE.  Why?  Because you're ready to KILL everyone on the other side of that door if you need to.  If you're going to end someone and everyone with them, you fucking take that tactical pause to make sure you're hitting the right goddamned spot.  

EDIT: Dtrain, you know, I live < .5 miles away from the Galls HQ.  Also with you all the way, if you're through my door, you're shot. 

[/quote]

It's still shoot first ask questions later.

(06-11-2012, 11:20 PM)Azure_Angel link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247178#msg247178 date=1339471554]
[quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247172#msg247172 date=1339470247]
[quote author=Dtrain323i link=topic=2632.msg247168#msg247168 date=1339467636]
[quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247166#msg247166 date=1339465162]
[quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247163#msg247163 date=1339462255]
http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNe...ers_120611

I really have no problem with this.

What constitues an unlawful entry? Who decides it's unlawful?
[/quote]

Busting down the door without probable cause and no warrant. Having a warrant on 123 Main Street but actually raiding 124 Main Street.

This was a response to an Indiana Judge who said citizens have no recourse if police entered a house unlawfully.
[/quote]

Ok but let's say I'm some backwoods redneck who shoots first and asks questions later. 2 officers could be dead cause of a wrong address, which is a super easy mistake.
[/quote]

No.  If you've ever kicked in a door, it's your job to make sure IT'S NOT A FUCKING MISTAKE.  Why?  Because you're ready to KILL everyone on the other side of that door if you need to.  If you're going to end someone and everyone with them, you fucking take that tactical pause to make sure you're hitting the right goddamned spot.  

EDIT: Dtrain, you know, I live < .5 miles away from the Galls HQ.  Also with you all the way, if you're through my door, you're shot. 

[/quote]

It's still shoot first ask questions later.
[/quote]

How is this different from being able to shoot people who enter your house unlawfully and without your permission?

???

fucking hell why does everyone think america is the god damn wild wild west.  its 2012.  We can make synthetic genomes and send robots to the moons of saturn, but we apparently can't handle living in structures that have doors.

:everyone_is_crazy_especially_me:

(06-11-2012, 11:32 PM)Saxxy link Wrote: [ -> ]but we apparently can't handle living in structures that have doors.

Not really sure the point your are trying to make here, but you might be surprised to know just how easy it is to pick/kick open a locked door.

(06-11-2012, 11:26 PM)Didzo link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247185#msg247185 date=1339474851]
[quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247178#msg247178 date=1339471554]
[quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247172#msg247172 date=1339470247]
[quote author=Dtrain323i link=topic=2632.msg247168#msg247168 date=1339467636]
[quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247166#msg247166 date=1339465162]
[quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247163#msg247163 date=1339462255]
http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNe...ers_120611

I really have no problem with this.

What constitues an unlawful entry? Who decides it's unlawful?
[/quote]

Busting down the door without probable cause and no warrant. Having a warrant on 123 Main Street but actually raiding 124 Main Street.

This was a response to an Indiana Judge who said citizens have no recourse if police entered a house unlawfully.
[/quote]

Ok but let's say I'm some backwoods redneck who shoots first and asks questions later. 2 officers could be dead cause of a wrong address, which is a super easy mistake.
[/quote]

No.  If you've ever kicked in a door, it's your job to make sure IT'S NOT A FUCKING MISTAKE.  Why?  Because you're ready to KILL everyone on the other side of that door if you need to.  If you're going to end someone and everyone with them, you fucking take that tactical pause to make sure you're hitting the right goddamned spot.  

EDIT: Dtrain, you know, I live < .5 miles away from the Galls HQ.  Also with you all the way, if you're through my door, you're shot. 

[/quote]

It's still shoot first ask questions later.
[/quote]

How is this different from being able to shoot people who enter your house unlawfully and without your permission?

???
[/quote]

It's not.  You remember Sneak and Peek Warrants? (don't worry Azure, you probably don't have these) I always wondered what would happen when a federal agent was fucking shot carrying out a legal search under the Patriot Act by a homeowner who caught him in the act.  There's an innate conflict there with castle doctrine, which is also supported by law in a lot of states. 

"I thought he was robbing the place, he had a gun, I felt threatened so I shot him in the face" 

You can't legally kill federal officers.  You can legally kill people threatening your life or property.  Is it OK if the cop goes for his gun before his badge to shoot him?  I know which one I would go for first.  Which one wins?  This shouldn't be ambiguous; if you're on my property, and I don't know about it, you're in the wrong.  That's part of what America is all about; "This is fucking mine. Not yours.  Mine.  I worked for it, I own it, you do not.  If you try to take it, I will fight for it." 

(06-11-2012, 11:48 PM)LT Crow link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Didzo link=topic=2632.msg247187#msg247187 date=1339475172]
[quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247185#msg247185 date=1339474851]
[quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247178#msg247178 date=1339471554]
[quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247172#msg247172 date=1339470247]
[quote author=Dtrain323i link=topic=2632.msg247168#msg247168 date=1339467636]
[quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247166#msg247166 date=1339465162]
[quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247163#msg247163 date=1339462255]
http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNe...ers_120611

I really have no problem with this.

What constitues an unlawful entry? Who decides it's unlawful?
[/quote]

Busting down the door without probable cause and no warrant. Having a warrant on 123 Main Street but actually raiding 124 Main Street.

This was a response to an Indiana Judge who said citizens have no recourse if police entered a house unlawfully.
[/quote]

Ok but let's say I'm some backwoods redneck who shoots first and asks questions later. 2 officers could be dead cause of a wrong address, which is a super easy mistake.
[/quote]

No.  If you've ever kicked in a door, it's your job to make sure IT'S NOT A FUCKING MISTAKE.  Why?  Because you're ready to KILL everyone on the other side of that door if you need to.  If you're going to end someone and everyone with them, you fucking take that tactical pause to make sure you're hitting the right goddamned spot.  

EDIT: Dtrain, you know, I live < .5 miles away from the Galls HQ.  Also with you all the way, if you're through my door, you're shot.  

[/quote]

It's still shoot first ask questions later.
[/quote]

How is this different from being able to shoot people who enter your house unlawfully and without your permission?

???
[/quote]

It's not.  You remember Sneak and Peek Warrants? (don't worry Azure, you probably don't have these) I always wondered what would happen when a federal agent was fucking shot carrying out a legal search under the Patriot Act by a homeowner who caught him in the act.  There's an innate conflict there with castle doctrine, which is also supported by law in a lot of states.  

"I thought he was robbing the place, he had a gun, I felt threatened so I shot him in the face"  

You can't legally kill federal officers.  You can legally kill people threatening your life or property.  Is it OK if the cop goes for his gun before his badge to shoot him?  I know which one I would go for first.  Which one wins?  This shouldn't be ambiguous; if you're on my property, and I don't know about it, you're in the wrong.  That's part of what America is all about; "This is fucking mine. Not yours.  Mine.  I worked for it, I own it, you do not.  If you try to take it, I will fight for it."  
[/quote]

I understand the right to protect your property... I just don't agree with it being legal to kill the person. That's just me though.

(06-11-2012, 11:46 PM)zaneyard link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Saxxy link=topic=2632.msg247188#msg247188 date=1339475540]
but we apparently can't handle living in structures that have doors.

Not really sure the point your are trying to make here, but you might be surprised to know just how easy it is to pick/kick open a locked door.
[/quote]

Sorry, I was just complaining about how crazy we, as a society/culture/species are/is.  It's just so depressing to have to read about people killing each other over nothing.  I need to draw into my isolation from the rest of the world more, apparently :-\

but yeah, I have seen those vids of people using bump keys, and i've seen what very large, very drunk assholes can do to doors in my building...

humans are not smart enough to live in large groups of unequal wealth distribution

this is why we have laws

unfortunately the laws are still made by not smart humans

vicious cycle, rinse, repeat

(06-11-2012, 11:56 PM)Azure_Angel link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247190#msg247190 date=1339476492]
[quote author=Didzo link=topic=2632.msg247187#msg247187 date=1339475172]
[quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247185#msg247185 date=1339474851]
[quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247178#msg247178 date=1339471554]
[quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247172#msg247172 date=1339470247]
[quote author=Dtrain323i link=topic=2632.msg247168#msg247168 date=1339467636]
[quote author=Azure_Angel link=topic=2632.msg247166#msg247166 date=1339465162]
[quote author=LT Crow link=topic=2632.msg247163#msg247163 date=1339462255]
http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNe...ers_120611

I really have no problem with this.

What constitues an unlawful entry? Who decides it's unlawful?
[/quote]

Busting down the door without probable cause and no warrant. Having a warrant on 123 Main Street but actually raiding 124 Main Street.

This was a response to an Indiana Judge who said citizens have no recourse if police entered a house unlawfully.
[/quote]

Ok but let's say I'm some backwoods redneck who shoots first and asks questions later. 2 officers could be dead cause of a wrong address, which is a super easy mistake.
[/quote]

No.  If you've ever kicked in a door, it's your job to make sure IT'S NOT A FUCKING MISTAKE.  Why?  Because you're ready to KILL everyone on the other side of that door if you need to.  If you're going to end someone and everyone with them, you fucking take that tactical pause to make sure you're hitting the right goddamned spot.  

EDIT: Dtrain, you know, I live < .5 miles away from the Galls HQ.  Also with you all the way, if you're through my door, you're shot.  

[/quote]

It's still shoot first ask questions later.
[/quote]

How is this different from being able to shoot people who enter your house unlawfully and without your permission?

???
[/quote]

It's not.  You remember Sneak and Peek Warrants? (don't worry Azure, you probably don't have these) I always wondered what would happen when a federal agent was fucking shot carrying out a legal search under the Patriot Act by a homeowner who caught him in the act.  There's an innate conflict there with castle doctrine, which is also supported by law in a lot of states.  

"I thought he was robbing the place, he had a gun, I felt threatened so I shot him in the face"  

You can't legally kill federal officers.  You can legally kill people threatening your life or property.  Is it OK if the cop goes for his gun before his badge to shoot him?  I know which one I would go for first.  Which one wins?  This shouldn't be ambiguous; if you're on my property, and I don't know about it, you're in the wrong.  That's part of what America is all about; "This is fucking mine. Not yours.  Mine.  I worked for it, I own it, you do not.  If you try to take it, I will fight for it."  
[/quote]

I understand the right to protect your property... I just don't agree with it being legal to kill the person. That's just me though.


[/quote]


Here's the best way to put it: like I said before, this law was in direct response to a decision made by an Indiana judge. Until this law is passed, a cop can break down your door, shoot your dog, and rape you. But if you try to resist, you will either get shot or go to prison. That is how screwed up the court decision was.

Now you said that you don't think it should be legal to kill someone to protect property and I understand where you're coming from.

However here's the problem with that. If someone has broken into my home and is robbing me, I don't have the luxury of assuming that he's just there to take my stuff. A criminal doesn't want to go to prison. If I'm a witness, he may want to get rid of me. Maybe he wants to have a little fun on the side and rape my wife. As a husband, I'm going to assume the worst and act accordingly.


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

And people wonder why the US has the highest crime and murder rates out of any developed or first-world nation.

Total lack of metric system.