Be Right Back, Uninstalling

If you are legitamately interested in learning both fields and doing work in both or either, that's great and more power to you, but if you are only trying to go for a double degree just to pad out your resume, than I can say that you would be better off focusing on one of the two fields and spending your frree time trying to get an internship instead.  Also, CE and CS are related, obviously you need one or the other doesn't work, but in terms of day to day application you will almost never be applying one while you are applying the other.

(10-29-2014, 12:45 PM)Greatbacon link Wrote: [ -> ]If you are legitimately interested in learning both fields and doing work in both or either

So far I am. I haven't gotten much into my engineering core classes yet, but the CS classes I've had I've enjoyed. But I also am interested in learning about microcontrollers and circuit design.

I'll be taking Circuit Analysis and Design, and Digital Logic next semester and I guess if I decide then that I'm not interested in moving farther down that field, I can always back out and drop CEE.

I know I probably won't ever end up doing both, or are there positions that integrate both fields? I guess I don't see why not. I could end up making something and also making it work. Regardless, so far I really do want to do both for the fun of it.

As far as internships go, every major here at stout requires you to spend a certain amount of time at a paid internship that's approved by the department. So I get one or I don't graduate.

(10-29-2014, 05:32 PM)zaneyard link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Greatbacon link=topic=2632.msg281741#msg281741 date=1414604706]
If you are legitimately interested in learning both fields and doing work in both or either

So far I am. I haven't gotten much into my engineering core classes yet, but the CS classes I've had I've enjoyed. But I also am interested in learning about microcontrollers and circuit design.

I'll be taking Circuit Analysis and Design, and Digital Logic next semester and I guess if I decide then that I'm not interested in moving farther down that field, I can always back out and drop CEE.

I know I probably won't ever end up doing both, or are there positions that integrate both fields? I guess I don't see why not. I could end up making something and also making it work. Regardless, so far I really do want to do both for the fun of it.

As far as internships go, every major here at stout requires you to spend a certain amount of time at a paid internship that's approved by the department. So I get one or I don't graduate.
[/quote]

TBH if you are learning so much about the field you might make a good project leader.  You could also be good for a startup.

(10-28-2014, 08:52 PM)Karth link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Elder link=topic=2632.msg281727#msg281727 date=1414544611]
[quote author=Karth link=topic=2632.msg281707#msg281707 date=1414361871]
Made a short documentary. Would appreciate any advice.

It was well cut, but make your commentary louder it should be the what your viewer is focusing on. There was a couple points where i felt a little lost as there was little build up or transitions are a little too fast. (that could be solved if you made it a bit longer.)
Hire Morgan Freeman for the next one. 
[/quote]

Was my commentary distracting at all? Which specific parts did you get lost on?
[/quote]

not bad.
The worst part was when he was speaking about the meeting and shining shoes.

(10-29-2014, 05:38 PM)Surf314 link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=zaneyard link=topic=2632.msg281747#msg281747 date=1414621979]
[quote author=Greatbacon link=topic=2632.msg281741#msg281741 date=1414604706]
If you are legitimately interested in learning both fields and doing work in both or either

So far I am. I haven't gotten much into my engineering core classes yet, but the CS classes I've had I've enjoyed. But I also am interested in learning about microcontrollers and circuit design.

I'll be taking Circuit Analysis and Design, and Digital Logic next semester and I guess if I decide then that I'm not interested in moving farther down that field, I can always back out and drop CEE.

I know I probably won't ever end up doing both, or are there positions that integrate both fields? I guess I don't see why not. I could end up making something and also making it work. Regardless, so far I really do want to do both for the fun of it.

As far as internships go, every major here at stout requires you to spend a certain amount of time at a paid internship that's approved by the department. So I get one or I don't graduate.
[/quote]

TBH if you are learning so much about the field you might make a good project leader.  You could also be good for a startup.
[/quote]

A few points:

-You will almost certainly not be hired into a leadership or management roles right out of school as an engineer, no matter what your pedigree is. You simply won't have the knowledge or expertise to back it up, even if you're a green-behind-the-ears PHD. By the time you've accrued enough experience to be considered for a management or leadership type role, your degree will have virtually no impact on that decision.

-While it always sounds cool to take more classes and learn more stuff, frankly, you'll pickup a broader set of knowledge - and faster - once you actually start working in a given industry, faster and more effectively than extra coursework can ever do for you.

-One internship is nice, but realistically you wanna shoot for at least 2-3 by graduation to really give yourself an edge post-graduation.

- Chances of you working a position where you heavily utilize both degrees are slim. An explanation I give to people thinking about engineering:

Lot's of people go into engineering wanting to design the next space shuttle (or whatever). Realistically, with massive projects like that, you won't be designing the whole shuttle. You might be the guy in charge of the landing gear (or depending on the actual company, you might just be the guy in charge of the bearings for the landing gear). The reality is that massive projects take massive amounts of expertise, redundancy, and oversight. This isn't a hard rule, but it is the norm. At smaller companies and startups, you tend to see engineers who are more "jack of all trades" filling multiple roles; but that isn't necessarily an ideal position, because it would imply your company decided to offload the work of 2 engineers onto 1 guy. So if you were expecting to be the swiss-army-knife of engineers, dial back your expectations, there are literally millions of nerds smarter than you and I (unless you're in the 0.014%, in which case holy fuck why are you here)

-Also holy fuck paperwork

-Also fuck chemists and chem-e's

I know you didn't actually ask for advice, so feel free to tell me to fuck-off, but I just don't want to see people graduating having made the same mistakes I did. The best thing you can do as part of your education (if your interest is purely a career) is to take an internship. And another. And take as many as you can fucking find, it is by far the most effective way to set yourself apart from the hordes of engineers applying for any and every job out there. If your interests go beyond a career, I hope they include making college a memorable experience. In which case, my own personal suggestion would be to take it easy with the coarse-load, find some non-academical pursuits you're passionate about and blow off steam with like-minded individuals. I made a lot of mistakes in my undergrad, but the biggest things I do not regret are the friends I made, the people that I met, and the stories I have to share.

edit: to be clear, I'm not saying don't do a double major. By all means, take extra classes early while they're easy, and explore your options. But, when the going gets tough (usually by junior year, though I'm not familiar with EECS curriculum and you pricks don't take thermo, so maybe never) don't think of yourself as weak if you want to ease off the throttle. There are more important things in life than a 4.0gpa. I had a 3.2 averaging 20hrs a term my last 2 years, and it did dick-all for me when I graduated. I fucking hated myself and my life those last 2 years for how much work I was doing, and I hated my life for another 8 months being told that I didn't have enough applicable work experience. I just managed to get lucky and find the one position with a company interested enough to throw me a bone. I wouldn't wish those ~3 years on anyone.

(10-29-2014, 06:51 PM)Duck link Wrote: [ -> ]you pricks don't take thermo, so maybe never)

So I'm guessing I'll be looking forward to that one?


You bring up some good points though. I'll be thinking about this more.

If you're interested, these are the courses I need to take, sorted by major and section, and to account for overlap. So far I've taken or am in:  CS 1 and 2 (java and c++), data structures, Chemistry, discrete math, calc 1 and 2, statics, some gen eds.




Thinking about this a bit more now and doing some research and I think it would be better to lean towards the software side of things. Software opens up the possibility of a telecommute job, which is something I'd absolutely love to do. The average salary is about the same between software and hardware, but software developers have a much better job outlook than hardware. I'm looking around and it really doesn't seem like there is much that integrates both hardware and software development.

Also, if I dropped a degree, I'd graduate faster, with less debt, and less stress.

(10-29-2014, 08:11 PM)Caffeine link Wrote: [ -> ]I have a hard time suppressing the urge to bash this in with a golf club or other blunt instrument

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/co...7.abstract A good read if just for the abstract. A lot of you probably already know this, but the demography of unvaccinated children is not underprivileged and in poor-access areas, but instead really is this upper-middle class, largely white, and educated population (educated enough to know better than the entire world's medical consensus...)

Most of my classmates get really irate over this issue. I myself would argue that vaccines are so essential to public health that campaigning against them is on par with being against antibiotics, or surgical anesthesia. The net good is that significant.

to that I say...
SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST
GOODBYE ANTIVAX PLEBES

the world is kind of a shitty place with the governments we have running things the way they are, so i understand the skepticism about vaccines. i don't side with one or the other, and haven't had a vaccine in a while. foolish? maybe, but again that's my own decision. i am not so unhealthy and unfit that my body can't get over a flu virus on its own. the thing that would really bother me is if the government comes out with an ebola vax or tries to make it mandatory. i guess that makes me a pleb, though

(10-29-2014, 10:53 PM)Dr. Zaius link Wrote: [ -> ]the world is kind of a shitty place with the governments we have running things the way they are, so i understand the skepticism about vaccines. i don't side with one or the other, and haven't had a vaccine in a while. foolish? maybe, but again that's my own decision. i am not so unhealthy and unfit that my body can't get over a flu virus on its own. the thing that would really bother me is if the government comes out with an ebola vax or tries to make it mandatory. i guess that makes me a pleb, though

First and foremost, the US government does not require ANY vaccine mandatory so I doubt a mandatory ebola vaccine will be a thing. But states have laws stating which vaccines are required in order to attend public school.

You've already had all the essential and required(to enter public school) vaccines when you were a child.
People such as yourself are within the "low risk" of dying from influenza group. It's not really a potential life or death situation for young adults, etc if they choose not to get vaccinated for the flu.
The young and elderly are at most risk so they should definitely get vaccinated. I got vaccinated because 1. having the flu sucks, and 2. to protect the young and elderly(prevents me from getting the flu and potentially spreading it to them)

The influenza vaccine isn't the only vaccine that these crazy parents are not giving their children. Measles, mumps, rubella, polio, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, HPV, etc vaccines are really important and are also boycotted. (and kids have died from preventable viruses)

I honestly don't care if adults, such as yourself, choose not to get vaccinated with anything because you're an adult and can make your own decisions. I have a problem with these parents putting their kids in danger because they think vaccines cause autism or mercury poisoning, or some other wild tinfoil hat gov't conspiracy gibberish (with absolutely zero legitimate scientific backing). The kids don't know better and listen to their parents.
Oh well.

If you believe vaccines cause autism and refuse to vaccinate your child then you're saying you would rather have a dead child than an autistic child.

(10-29-2014, 11:53 PM)Mission Difficult link Wrote: [ -> ]If you believe vaccines cause autism and refuse to vaccinate your child then you're saying you would rather have a dead child than an autistic child.

[spoiler]Some people would prefer that.[/spoiler]

i'm not so much concerned with the 'vaccines cause autism' gag, i don't believe that at all. my problem isn't with the science, it's with big brother being able to change/add pretty much whatever it wants to should it decide to. and i don't have children to ruin the lives of yet. tinfoil hats and such

You do realize that the amounts of these elements in vaccines are just preservatives and are really no major increase in exposure to them than what the child would typically be exposed to anyway?  The other thing the first doctor to write a paper linking vaccines to autism rescinded the paper admitted it's COMPLETE FALSEHOOD and lost his license and credibility in his field?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Just a dumb arizona kid here to remind everyone to double check their sources! Bullshit data hurts everyone!

(10-29-2014, 07:20 PM)zaneyard link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Duck link=topic=2632.msg281751#msg281751 date=1414626710]
you pricks don't take thermo, so maybe never)

So I'm guessing I'll be looking forward to that one?


You bring up some good points though. I'll be thinking about this more.

If you're interested, these are the courses I need to take, sorted by major and section, and to account for overlap. So far I've taken or am in:  CS 1 and 2 (java and c++), data structures, Chemistry, discrete math, calc 1 and 2, statics, some gen eds.




Thinking about this a bit more now and doing some research and I think it would be better to lean towards the software side of things. Software opens up the possibility of a telecommute job, which is something I'd absolutely love to do. The average salary is about the same between software and hardware, but software developers have a much better job outlook than hardware. I'm looking around and it really doesn't seem like there is much that integrates both hardware and software development.

Also, if I dropped a degree, I'd graduate faster, with less debt, and less stress.
[/quote]

Eh, 1 term of thermo will be shitty, but it probably won't end you. I had to take 5 separate thermo classes, shit fucking sucks. Fuck that's a lot of math though, have fun with analysis. Not familiar with how it is elsewhere, but in Boston it was brutal (I didn't take it, I just watched people much smarter than myself suffer through it).

TIL : T-pain can actually sing (without autotune)

T-Pain: NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert

(10-29-2014, 07:20 PM)zaneyard link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Duck link=topic=2632.msg281751#msg281751 date=1414626710]
you pricks don't take thermo, so maybe never)

So I'm guessing I'll be looking forward to that one?


You bring up some good points though. I'll be thinking about this more.

If you're interested, these are the courses I need to take, sorted by major and section, and to account for overlap. So far I've taken or am in:  CS 1 and 2 (java and c++), data structures, Chemistry, discrete math, calc 1 and 2, statics, some gen eds.


Thinking about this a bit more now and doing some research and I think it would be better to lean towards the software side of things. Software opens up the possibility of a telecommute job, which is something I'd absolutely love to do. The average salary is about the same between software and hardware, but software developers have a much better job outlook than hardware. I'm looking around and it really doesn't seem like there is much that integrates both hardware and software development.

Also, if I dropped a degree, I'd graduate faster, with less debt, and less stress.
[/quote]

Yeah, hardware and software engineering are strange because it seems like they are perfect compliments to each other, and functionally one doesn't exist without the other, but the truth about cs is that it can be applied and utilized without a computer.  As a discipline it's more about finding patterns and rule sets for describing, analyzing, and sorting information and it just happens to be that a computer is the best way to handle that.  One of the grandfathers of algorithms said "Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes."

Anyway, to re-echo what Duck said, the best thing you can do as a CS student is try and get as much internship time as you can, because the scale of projects you will work on in an internship are orders of magnitude bigger than anything you will touch in school.  It will also give you some insight into how projects are actually managed in the real world (if they are managed well or poorly is another thing altogether).  Basically it will let you learn all the shit that comes with a career in CS that doesn't actually have anything to do with writing code.

(10-30-2014, 08:40 AM)Greatbacon link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=zaneyard link=topic=2632.msg281752#msg281752 date=1414628456]
[quote author=Duck link=topic=2632.msg281751#msg281751 date=1414626710]
you pricks don't take thermo, so maybe never)

So I'm guessing I'll be looking forward to that one?


You bring up some good points though. I'll be thinking about this more.

If you're interested, these are the courses I need to take, sorted by major and section, and to account for overlap. So far I've taken or am in:  CS 1 and 2 (java and c++), data structures, Chemistry, discrete math, calc 1 and 2, statics, some gen eds.


Thinking about this a bit more now and doing some research and I think it would be better to lean towards the software side of things. Software opens up the possibility of a telecommute job, which is something I'd absolutely love to do. The average salary is about the same between software and hardware, but software developers have a much better job outlook than hardware. I'm looking around and it really doesn't seem like there is much that integrates both hardware and software development.

Also, if I dropped a degree, I'd graduate faster, with less debt, and less stress.
[/quote]

Yeah, hardware and software engineering are strange because it seems like they are perfect compliments to each other, and functionally one doesn't exist without the other, but the truth about cs is that it can be applied and utilized without a computer.  As a discipline it's more about finding patterns and rule sets for describing, analyzing, and sorting information and it just happens to be that a computer is the best way to handle that.  One of the grandfathers of algorithms said "Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes."

Anyway, to re-echo what Duck said, the best thing you can do as a CS student is try and get as much internship time as you can, because the scale of projects you will work on in an internship are orders of magnitude bigger than anything you will touch in school.  It will also give you some insight into how projects are actually managed in the real world (if they are managed well or poorly is another thing altogether).  Basically it will let you learn all the shit that comes with a career in CS that doesn't actually have anything to do with writing code.[/quote]

That's pretty accurate. Most employers in computer sciences are looking for people who have experience working in teams, and even have a portfolio of projects and examples.